4 ms·

I'll have to dig up some sources later, if I don't then consider the point conceded I guess as a way of holding me to it. The other problem of course if the fu

by ericmay 26d ago

I'll have to dig up some sources later, if I don't then consider the point conceded I guess as a way of holding me to it. The other problem of course if the fundamental "need" to have a JCPOA in the first place. Iran can just stop trying to build nuclear weapons and then we don't need these kinds of agreements. They also enriched uranium: "Iran has 440.9 kilograms (972 pounds) of uranium that is enriched up to 60% purity, a short, technical step from weapons-grade levels of 90%, according to the International Atomic Energy Agency, the U.N.'s nuclear watchdog agency." [1] why were they even doing that? When I read things like that it's like who even cares if they were supposedly following the JCPOA? I'm not trying to change the subject or move the goalposts, but just pointing out how it's interesting that they have all this enriched material. Why do they even have it? Someone said they were following the agreement, why do they need to have this agreement to not enrich uranium? Just don't do it? [1] https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/securing-irans-enriched-uranium-by-force-would-be-risky-and-complex-experts-say https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/securing-irans-enriched-u...

mikem170 26d ago
The IAEA also said: "In its May 2025 report, the IAEA noted Iran’s enrichment to 60% purity—beyond JCPOA limits but not prohibited under the NPT itself" [0] Apparently the Iranians started enriching to that 60% level, and self reporting, in 2021, as leverage in the unsuccessful negotions to bring the JCPOA back into effect to get sanctions dropped. International politics is what it is - power and self interest. There are those who don't want Iran to have a nuke. Iran has its reasons for wanting that capability. Throw in the crusades and ongoing holy wars, colonialism, oil, authoritarian regimes, propaganda, alliances, greed, etc - it's no wonder this is still a problem. One of many problems in that part of the world. Ironic that the U.S. got the iranian nucear program started, eh? [1] [0] https://nuclearwatch.net/2025-09-11/enrichment-under-the-npt-jcpoa-and-unsr2231-a-legal-and-political-reassessment-in-light-of-recent-developments/ https://nuclearwatch.net/2025-09-11/enrichment-under-the-npt... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_program_of_Iran#Origins_under_the_Shah_(1950s%E2%80%931970s) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_program_of_Iran#Origin...
- ericmay 26d ago
  > Throw in the crusades and ongoing holy wars, colonialism, oil, authoritarian regimes, propaganda, alliances, greed, etc - it's no wonder this is still a problem. One of many problems in that part of the world. Are you serious lol. Ok let’s go back to the Persians invading the Greeks!
  - mikem170 26d ago
    Yes, I'm serious. The Persians are a proud culture and know their history. Just like a lot of other people. You don't think religion still motivates people? There have been Sunni vs Shia and Christian vs Muslim conflicts for about a thousand years, more on than off. Israel vs Palestine more recently, fighting over ancient holy sites. So much back and forth - the Muslim conquest, the crusades, the Ottomans, Napolean, the Shah of Iran, 9/11, etc. Are you saying that those in the Middle East don't know the history of all that, or don't notice that they have been imposed upon lately by foreign powers? Are you saying that there's not a large loud group of people in the U.S. who have been saying that Islam is evil? They aren't like us. They want to kill us all. They'll never stop. Etc. They're going to nuke Boston if we don't attack. I know a lot of religious people looking at current events as end-of-times bliblical - New Jerusalem, second coming, etc. These people have been very politically influental. Even now Vance is very publically calling a muslim senate candidate evil. Those in power use religion to radicalize people. Are you saying this isn't happening and hasn't been happening for hundreds of years? I'm into history, so maybe I'm coming from a different angle. You've posted quite a bit in this thread and repeated a number of things that appear to be factually incorrect. Are you sure that you are well informed and not making biased assumptions?
    - ericmay 25d ago
      > You've posted quite a bit in this thread and repeated a number of things that appear to be factually incorrect. Are you sure that you are well informed and not making biased assumptions? Please cite these things that are factually incorrect. > Israel vs Palestine more recently, fighting over ancient holy sites. That's not recent. Don't you know your history? > Yes, I'm serious. The Persians are a proud culture and know their history. Just like a lot of other people. > So much back and forth - the Muslim conquest, the crusades, the Ottomans, Napolean, the Shah of Iran, 9/11, etc. Persian != Muslim - don't you know your history? Iran wasn't responsible for 9/11. You're lumping in a lot of distinct cultures and civilizations over thousands of years to make a point that just does not make sense. Speaking of, yea you remember the Crusades, why do you seem to forget the Mongolians who did far worse to Islamic civilization than anyone else in history? Why doesn't anyone seem to remember that and use that as justification to invade China or Mongolia or something? It's because this notion of some long historical memory is bullshit. The Persians, the Iranians, they forget about this stuff just like every other country. Nobody has a "long memory", and if Iran is holding on to some 2,000 year old grudge and they're just going to keep screwing with stuff while the rest of us are trying to get on with our lives, maybe Trump was right to suggest annihilating that civilization. What other option do we have? > Are you saying that there's not a large loud group of people in the U.S. who have been saying that Islam is evil? Yea that's generally true. Most people don't care about Islam or Muslims. This is unlike Islamic countries who care very much if you aren't Islamic. Maybe Islamic countries should grow up and get with the times? > Even now Vance is very publically calling a muslim senate candidate evil. As an aside I detest JD Vance but he's calling this guy evil primarily because he's a communist, not a Muslim.

by ericmay 26d ago

mikem170 26d ago

The IAEA also said: "In its May 2025 report, the IAEA noted Iran’s enrichment to 60% purity—beyond JCPOA limits but not prohibited under the NPT itself" [0] Apparently the Iranians started enriching to that 60% level, and self reporting, in 2021, as leverage in the unsuccessful negotions to bring the JCPOA back into effect to get sanctions dropped. International politics is what it is - power and self interest. There are those who don't want Iran to have a nuke. Iran has its reasons for wanting that capability. Throw in the crusades and ongoing holy wars, colonialism, oil, authoritarian regimes, propaganda, alliances, greed, etc - it's no wonder this is still a problem. One of many problems in that part of the world. Ironic that the U.S. got the iranian nucear program started, eh? [1] [0] https://nuclearwatch.net/2025-09-11/enrichment-under-the-npt-jcpoa-and-unsr2231-a-legal-and-political-reassessment-in-light-of-recent-developments/ https://nuclearwatch.net/2025-09-11/enrichment-under-the-npt... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_program_of_Iran#Origins_under_the_Shah_(1950s%E2%80%931970s) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_program_of_Iran#Origin...

ericmay 26d ago
> Throw in the crusades and ongoing holy wars, colonialism, oil, authoritarian regimes, propaganda, alliances, greed, etc - it's no wonder this is still a problem. One of many problems in that part of the world. Are you serious lol. Ok let’s go back to the Persians invading the Greeks!
- mikem170 26d ago
  Yes, I'm serious. The Persians are a proud culture and know their history. Just like a lot of other people. You don't think religion still motivates people? There have been Sunni vs Shia and Christian vs Muslim conflicts for about a thousand years, more on than off. Israel vs Palestine more recently, fighting over ancient holy sites. So much back and forth - the Muslim conquest, the crusades, the Ottomans, Napolean, the Shah of Iran, 9/11, etc. Are you saying that those in the Middle East don't know the history of all that, or don't notice that they have been imposed upon lately by foreign powers? Are you saying that there's not a large loud group of people in the U.S. who have been saying that Islam is evil? They aren't like us. They want to kill us all. They'll never stop. Etc. They're going to nuke Boston if we don't attack. I know a lot of religious people looking at current events as end-of-times bliblical - New Jerusalem, second coming, etc. These people have been very politically influental. Even now Vance is very publically calling a muslim senate candidate evil. Those in power use religion to radicalize people. Are you saying this isn't happening and hasn't been happening for hundreds of years? I'm into history, so maybe I'm coming from a different angle. You've posted quite a bit in this thread and repeated a number of things that appear to be factually incorrect. Are you sure that you are well informed and not making biased assumptions?
  - ericmay 25d ago
    > You've posted quite a bit in this thread and repeated a number of things that appear to be factually incorrect. Are you sure that you are well informed and not making biased assumptions? Please cite these things that are factually incorrect. > Israel vs Palestine more recently, fighting over ancient holy sites. That's not recent. Don't you know your history? > Yes, I'm serious. The Persians are a proud culture and know their history. Just like a lot of other people. > So much back and forth - the Muslim conquest, the crusades, the Ottomans, Napolean, the Shah of Iran, 9/11, etc. Persian != Muslim - don't you know your history? Iran wasn't responsible for 9/11. You're lumping in a lot of distinct cultures and civilizations over thousands of years to make a point that just does not make sense. Speaking of, yea you remember the Crusades, why do you seem to forget the Mongolians who did far worse to Islamic civilization than anyone else in history? Why doesn't anyone seem to remember that and use that as justification to invade China or Mongolia or something? It's because this notion of some long historical memory is bullshit. The Persians, the Iranians, they forget about this stuff just like every other country. Nobody has a "long memory", and if Iran is holding on to some 2,000 year old grudge and they're just going to keep screwing with stuff while the rest of us are trying to get on with our lives, maybe Trump was right to suggest annihilating that civilization. What other option do we have? > Are you saying that there's not a large loud group of people in the U.S. who have been saying that Islam is evil? Yea that's generally true. Most people don't care about Islam or Muslims. This is unlike Islamic countries who care very much if you aren't Islamic. Maybe Islamic countries should grow up and get with the times? > Even now Vance is very publically calling a muslim senate candidate evil. As an aside I detest JD Vance but he's calling this guy evil primarily because he's a communist, not a Muslim.