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There is a huge business opportunity to become the world leader in sustainable data center design. Whoever wins could one day have immense influence over every

There is a huge business opportunity to become the world leader in sustainable data center design. Whoever wins could one day have immense influence over every single data center in the world (or even out of this world, where efficient resource utilization would likely be essential). It’s disappointing to see the United States miss out: US companies and research institutions would actually be extremely competitive in this field with the right government incentives.

deepwoods 23d ago
Isn't the goal to power most non-earthbound data centers with solar? I am no scientist, but going out to space feels like it gets rid of most of the downsides to solar.
splicebot 23d ago
I think most people who are working towards greater AI would consider that not an opportunity, but planning to lose in a game that is winner(s) take all. Winning scenarios in AI don't include being accountable for sustainability and they don't include expertise being valuable. Winners will decide what sustainable means for them.
- leptons 23d ago
  Winner take all is a farce. It didn't work for Uber when they tried to out-spend the competition, Lyft is still very much a thing, and so are taxis (the non-robo kind). There will always be many, many AI companies and trying to execute "winner take all" in this space is only going to make more problems and waste a shit-ton of money.
  - alex43578 23d ago
    If you subscribe to an AGI/ASI view, the stakes are different than the network effects that Uber thinks they could get. Success here would mean you could theoretically pull away from the competition so far and so fast, whether that be at a company or nation-state level.
    - questionableans 22d ago
      More likely all they’ll pull ahead in is making an even bigger mess.
- questionableans 22d ago
  Winners don’t decide what is sustainable, the reality of the planet does.
  - splicebot 22d ago
    The situation only has to be sustainable for those entities that get a vote that matters. I don't think they've given us any reason to believe they intend on that being a whole lot of people. In fact they've been quite up-front about saying they are concerned about the possibility of that number being zero
alex43578 23d ago
Sustainable design for datacenters is orthogonal to success in data centers. That's like saying a local bakery should become a leader in pet adoption - it'll score some feel good points, but is almost counterproductive to the actual mission. A data center (right now) needs to be built fast, with a large amount of always-on power. Sticking a gas turbine behind the meter in the parking lot is one of the most practical ways to get there.
- questionableans 22d ago
  It’s not just a feel good thing. There are real resource limits, even if someone chooses to foolishly not believe that. If you can get more done with a given level of power and other resources, you get more out of your data centers.
  - alex43578 22d ago
    "Given level of power" is meaningless for data centers. If they can get 50MW of power, they'll obviously try to use it as efficiently as possible to generate as much compute/value. But that's not what anyone means when they're talking about sustainability for data centers in terms of power usage: they're either talking less power (ie less value) or power from renewable sources, which can't compete with sources like gas turbines across a mix of setup time, consistency, and power/$. If solar and batteries were available sooner than gas turbines, GE wouldn't have a multiyear waiting list. If solar/batteries were cheaper than gas turbines after accounting for land/permitting/maintenance, every DC would be buying the empty land next to them for an eventual switch to solar. Notably these many-million dollar investments aren't doing those things, and I guarantee you they have tried every angle imaginable to get power to the DC as quickly and cheaply as possible.
    - questionableans 22d ago
      I don’t mean for one data center, I mean globally. There are resource limits to this planet, and we’ve been stretching past them in the short term, and are starting to see the long term consequences. The problem is people think “oh, it’s ok if I pollute a little more because the world is large, and the god we’ll create in our image with these machines will figure it all out for us.” That’s an unsustainable business model based on impressive technology managed by people stuck in childlike fantasies.
4b11b4 22d ago
Sustainable business center design

deepwoods 23d ago

Isn't the goal to power most non-earthbound data centers with solar? I am no scientist, but going out to space feels like it gets rid of most of the downsides to solar.

splicebot 23d ago

I think most people who are working towards greater AI would consider that not an opportunity, but planning to lose in a game that is winner(s) take all. Winning scenarios in AI don't include being accountable for sustainability and they don't include expertise being valuable. Winners will decide what sustainable means for them.

leptons 23d ago
Winner take all is a farce. It didn't work for Uber when they tried to out-spend the competition, Lyft is still very much a thing, and so are taxis (the non-robo kind). There will always be many, many AI companies and trying to execute "winner take all" in this space is only going to make more problems and waste a shit-ton of money.
- alex43578 23d ago
  If you subscribe to an AGI/ASI view, the stakes are different than the network effects that Uber thinks they could get. Success here would mean you could theoretically pull away from the competition so far and so fast, whether that be at a company or nation-state level.
  - questionableans 22d ago
    More likely all they’ll pull ahead in is making an even bigger mess.
questionableans 22d ago
Winners don’t decide what is sustainable, the reality of the planet does.
- splicebot 22d ago
  The situation only has to be sustainable for those entities that get a vote that matters. I don't think they've given us any reason to believe they intend on that being a whole lot of people. In fact they've been quite up-front about saying they are concerned about the possibility of that number being zero

alex43578 23d ago

Sustainable design for datacenters is orthogonal to success in data centers. That's like saying a local bakery should become a leader in pet adoption - it'll score some feel good points, but is almost counterproductive to the actual mission. A data center (right now) needs to be built fast, with a large amount of always-on power. Sticking a gas turbine behind the meter in the parking lot is one of the most practical ways to get there.

questionableans 22d ago
It’s not just a feel good thing. There are real resource limits, even if someone chooses to foolishly not believe that. If you can get more done with a given level of power and other resources, you get more out of your data centers.
- alex43578 22d ago
  "Given level of power" is meaningless for data centers. If they can get 50MW of power, they'll obviously try to use it as efficiently as possible to generate as much compute/value. But that's not what anyone means when they're talking about sustainability for data centers in terms of power usage: they're either talking less power (ie less value) or power from renewable sources, which can't compete with sources like gas turbines across a mix of setup time, consistency, and power/$. If solar and batteries were available sooner than gas turbines, GE wouldn't have a multiyear waiting list. If solar/batteries were cheaper than gas turbines after accounting for land/permitting/maintenance, every DC would be buying the empty land next to them for an eventual switch to solar. Notably these many-million dollar investments aren't doing those things, and I guarantee you they have tried every angle imaginable to get power to the DC as quickly and cheaply as possible.
  - questionableans 22d ago
    I don’t mean for one data center, I mean globally. There are resource limits to this planet, and we’ve been stretching past them in the short term, and are starting to see the long term consequences. The problem is people think “oh, it’s ok if I pollute a little more because the world is large, and the god we’ll create in our image with these machines will figure it all out for us.” That’s an unsustainable business model based on impressive technology managed by people stuck in childlike fantasies.

4b11b4 22d ago

Sustainable business center design