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Is this the scenario described in Ted Chiang's short story https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Evolution_of_Human_Science https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Evolut

Is this the scenario described in Ted Chiang's short story https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Evolution_of_Human_Science https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Evolution_of_Human_Science where scientists are "catching crumbs from the table" trying to decipher the results generated by superhuman intelligence?

alkyon 20d ago
It's still an optimistic scenario. Artificial superintelligence may develop hypermathematics of a kind that never will be accesible to human mind, enhanced or not. One can't teach geometry to ants even if you put them on a Moebius strip. It would be more like Lem's novel where it completely disappears from the human horizon: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golem_XIV https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golem_XIV
- GPerson 20d ago
  What’s optimistic or non-optimistic specifically about the machine having a system of mathematics beyond our comprehension within it? Why should we care about that in itself?
  - alkyon 20d ago
    In the first case, we'd still have a chance to take a glance at the frontier of discovery (even if ordinary human mathematicians had to spent years translating what metahumans achieved). In the second case all human-level maths would be solved and what lies beyond would be always out of our scope.
- genxy 20d ago
  Which is why if humanity had empathy, it would be working on how to make smarter ants, so that they can learn more advanced geometry.
  - CamperBob2 20d ago
    What do you think we're doing?!
  - falcor84 20d ago
    I love that as a goal! Perhaps indeed a better understanding of what intelligence really is would allow this sort of Uplift (as in Brin's books).
    - tomrod 20d ago
      A fellow Brin aficionado!
  - alkyon 20d ago
    Ant Intelligence will be next big thing in machine learning after this bubble bursts
  - _superposition_ 20d ago
    It's quite possible ants understand a geometry more advanced than our own.
  - rlt 20d ago
    Sounds like a great use of AI.
- slopinthebag 20d ago
  Why would this be optimistic? This sounds extremely negative to me…
  - subsistence234 19d ago
    optimistic in comparison to the alternative, where humans can't understand anything anymore. if a particularly intelligent sixth grader was highly motivated to understand chromatic homotopy and had a highly capable private teacher available to her 24/7, she might within a year get to the point where she could apply it by herself to figure out some simple but nontrivial topological properties. (nobody has tested this. maybe it would require at least three years instead of one.) if a particularly intelligent chimpanzee was for some reason highly motivated to understand chromatic homotopy, no matter how many years the most incredible teachers spent explaining it to her, she would never comprehend anything about it. that's the pessimistic scenario: humans will be to future AI like our closest evolutionary relatives are to us. or even more pessimistic: we will be to future AI like insects are to us.

alkyon 20d ago

It's still an optimistic scenario. Artificial superintelligence may develop hypermathematics of a kind that never will be accesible to human mind, enhanced or not. One can't teach geometry to ants even if you put them on a Moebius strip. It would be more like Lem's novel where it completely disappears from the human horizon: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golem_XIV https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golem_XIV

GPerson 20d ago
What’s optimistic or non-optimistic specifically about the machine having a system of mathematics beyond our comprehension within it? Why should we care about that in itself?
- alkyon 20d ago
  In the first case, we'd still have a chance to take a glance at the frontier of discovery (even if ordinary human mathematicians had to spent years translating what metahumans achieved). In the second case all human-level maths would be solved and what lies beyond would be always out of our scope.
genxy 20d ago
Which is why if humanity had empathy, it would be working on how to make smarter ants, so that they can learn more advanced geometry.
- CamperBob2 20d ago
  What do you think we're doing?!
- falcor84 20d ago
  I love that as a goal! Perhaps indeed a better understanding of what intelligence really is would allow this sort of Uplift (as in Brin's books).
  - tomrod 20d ago
    A fellow Brin aficionado!
- alkyon 20d ago
  Ant Intelligence will be next big thing in machine learning after this bubble bursts
- _superposition_ 20d ago
  It's quite possible ants understand a geometry more advanced than our own.
- rlt 20d ago
  Sounds like a great use of AI.
slopinthebag 20d ago
Why would this be optimistic? This sounds extremely negative to me…
- subsistence234 19d ago
  optimistic in comparison to the alternative, where humans can't understand anything anymore. if a particularly intelligent sixth grader was highly motivated to understand chromatic homotopy and had a highly capable private teacher available to her 24/7, she might within a year get to the point where she could apply it by herself to figure out some simple but nontrivial topological properties. (nobody has tested this. maybe it would require at least three years instead of one.) if a particularly intelligent chimpanzee was for some reason highly motivated to understand chromatic homotopy, no matter how many years the most incredible teachers spent explaining it to her, she would never comprehend anything about it. that's the pessimistic scenario: humans will be to future AI like our closest evolutionary relatives are to us. or even more pessimistic: we will be to future AI like insects are to us.