3 ms·

I'm sure the cost to give every ground zero worker clean-room level suits with a built in filter would have been 1/100000th the total cost compared to the medic

I'm sure the cost to give every ground zero worker clean-room level suits with a built in filter would have been 1/100000th the total cost compared to the medical expense of treating them over the next 25 years.

afavour 23d ago
Even the kind of masks we all got used to during COVID (KN95 etc) would have probably done wonders compared to the nothing they were given.
amluto 23d ago
Clean room equipment is kind of the opposite of what was needed. Clean room equipment protects the room from the people. What’s was needed was likely pretty basic PPE: P100 respirators along with outer clothing that would be kept out of people’s homes and showers when leaving the site. (PAPRs would have been even better, but they wouldn’t have been cheap or available in large numbers on short notice.) Unfortunately, if you watch modern construction workers, you’ll find that PPE is almost universally ignored when performing common but dangerous tasks like cutting concrete or lead-painted surfaces.
- pvab3 23d ago
  I've been well served by just using a P100 respirator when I'm doing anything dirty or dusty. There have been a few times that it's reduced exposure to something bad that I didn't know about, among them removing old shingles from my attic (asbestos composite material) or sanding paint that I had tested negative for lead (transparent varnish underneath had lead).
  - amluto 23d ago
    > transparent varnish underneath had lead Weird. Wasn’t lead typically used as an opacifying agent? In any case, if you test by taking a little scraping, you can only detect lead that you actually scraped. But if you test with X-ray fluorescence, you get an integrated density over a decent thickness. Also, even if the P100 respirator protects you adequately while sanding, it provides no protection against future exposure to the dust that you create.
    - gucci-on-fleek 23d ago
      > Weird. Wasn’t lead typically used as an opacifying agent? That's its role in paint, but lead glass [0] is a thing, so transparent lead-based compounds do exist. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_glass https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_glass
    - pvab3 22d ago
      there was a layer in between. I had it XRF'd after I started. And I always cleanup with a full HEPA vacuum anyways.
widowlark 23d ago
but importantly, the down-the-line costs can be obfuscated and spread across the private and public sectors just enough that the government can claim deniability and therefore is no longer on the hook for the costs.
ToucanLoucan 23d ago
Doesn't matter. Literally the same calculus as reopening everything far prematurely for COVID: "But the economy!" The people running this show don't give a flying fuck about the working class. They'll march us into the meat grinder no matter what.
- EA-3167 23d ago
  The funny thing to me about this is how driven by (ignorant) public demand that led to premature re-openings. People have agency, and it’s always a little depressing to see people acting like they’re robots being led by a shadowy power. People bitches about masks, about everything and politicians tend to give in to that.
  - ToucanLoucan 23d ago
    The politicians (and more directly, their corporate sponsors) stoked that opinion. It didn't come from nowhere. From day 1 of the pandemic the reactionary media ecosystem would not shut the fuck up for even a MOMENT about the unnecessary "draconian" "authoritarian" lockdowns and how bad they were. Why? Because said corporate masters were losing shitloads of money because it was dangerous for customers to go shopping, and it was even more dangerous for people to go to work. But we can't possibly pump the brakes on the economy, even for a moment! Lines have to go up, no matter how many millions of lives it costed. Yes, the people demanded it, but that demand itself was a created thing. Sure we would've had our vaccine deniers and other assorted cranks, we always have and will, but we had an entire sector of the mass media pouring gasoline on that fire as fast as they fucking could to manage exactly what fucking happened. And like, even if you want to say the above is tinfoil hat shit: Okay, then the Governments job in this situation would be to defer to experts and figure out public policies that would keep people safe. Which we did, kind of, for awhile. But like if public opinion is screeching so loud for lockdowns to end, the government should fucking say NO. That's their JOB.
    - EA-3167 23d ago
      Again, “People I disagree with have no agency” is a really unfortunate cognitive failure mode.

afavour 23d ago

Even the kind of masks we all got used to during COVID (KN95 etc) would have probably done wonders compared to the nothing they were given.

amluto 23d ago

Clean room equipment is kind of the opposite of what was needed. Clean room equipment protects the room from the people. What’s was needed was likely pretty basic PPE: P100 respirators along with outer clothing that would be kept out of people’s homes and showers when leaving the site. (PAPRs would have been even better, but they wouldn’t have been cheap or available in large numbers on short notice.) Unfortunately, if you watch modern construction workers, you’ll find that PPE is almost universally ignored when performing common but dangerous tasks like cutting concrete or lead-painted surfaces.

pvab3 23d ago
I've been well served by just using a P100 respirator when I'm doing anything dirty or dusty. There have been a few times that it's reduced exposure to something bad that I didn't know about, among them removing old shingles from my attic (asbestos composite material) or sanding paint that I had tested negative for lead (transparent varnish underneath had lead).
- amluto 23d ago
  > transparent varnish underneath had lead Weird. Wasn’t lead typically used as an opacifying agent? In any case, if you test by taking a little scraping, you can only detect lead that you actually scraped. But if you test with X-ray fluorescence, you get an integrated density over a decent thickness. Also, even if the P100 respirator protects you adequately while sanding, it provides no protection against future exposure to the dust that you create.
  - gucci-on-fleek 23d ago
    > Weird. Wasn’t lead typically used as an opacifying agent? That's its role in paint, but lead glass [0] is a thing, so transparent lead-based compounds do exist. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_glass https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_glass
  - pvab3 22d ago
    there was a layer in between. I had it XRF'd after I started. And I always cleanup with a full HEPA vacuum anyways.

widowlark 23d ago

but importantly, the down-the-line costs can be obfuscated and spread across the private and public sectors just enough that the government can claim deniability and therefore is no longer on the hook for the costs.

ToucanLoucan 23d ago

Doesn't matter. Literally the same calculus as reopening everything far prematurely for COVID: "But the economy!" The people running this show don't give a flying fuck about the working class. They'll march us into the meat grinder no matter what.

EA-3167 23d ago
The funny thing to me about this is how driven by (ignorant) public demand that led to premature re-openings. People have agency, and it’s always a little depressing to see people acting like they’re robots being led by a shadowy power. People bitches about masks, about everything and politicians tend to give in to that.
- ToucanLoucan 23d ago
  The politicians (and more directly, their corporate sponsors) stoked that opinion. It didn't come from nowhere. From day 1 of the pandemic the reactionary media ecosystem would not shut the fuck up for even a MOMENT about the unnecessary "draconian" "authoritarian" lockdowns and how bad they were. Why? Because said corporate masters were losing shitloads of money because it was dangerous for customers to go shopping, and it was even more dangerous for people to go to work. But we can't possibly pump the brakes on the economy, even for a moment! Lines have to go up, no matter how many millions of lives it costed. Yes, the people demanded it, but that demand itself was a created thing. Sure we would've had our vaccine deniers and other assorted cranks, we always have and will, but we had an entire sector of the mass media pouring gasoline on that fire as fast as they fucking could to manage exactly what fucking happened. And like, even if you want to say the above is tinfoil hat shit: Okay, then the Governments job in this situation would be to defer to experts and figure out public policies that would keep people safe. Which we did, kind of, for awhile. But like if public opinion is screeching so loud for lockdowns to end, the government should fucking say NO. That's their JOB.
  - EA-3167 23d ago
    Again, “People I disagree with have no agency” is a really unfortunate cognitive failure mode.