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> All other nuclear nations behave Russia, China, the U.S., North Korea, Israel. These are all countries that absolutely do not behave. Each commits atrocities

> All other nuclear nations behave Russia, China, the U.S., North Korea, Israel. These are all countries that absolutely do not behave. Each commits atrocities on a regular basis. Them having nukes makes accountability much more difficult. Just to be clear: the current situation is a huge mess caused by one deranged leader.

ericmay 22d ago
> Just to be clear: the current situation is a huge mess caused by one deranged leader. Sorry that's just dead wrong. This doesn't happen in a vacuum. I mean you could simply add Netanyahu and make your statement incorrect here. Nevermind all the other actors, Iran's deranged death cult, and more.
- pasquinelli 22d ago
  no, it is just trump. netanyahu's been pushing for this for decades, but prior presidents just didn't let themselves be pushed. as for iran, they've been the picture of restraint since trump's first term.
  - rayiner 22d ago
    > as for iran, they've been the picture of restraint since trump's first term. They tried to assassinate Trump, before he did any of this!
    - pasquinelli 22d ago
      my reflex was to think that sounds like a lie israel would tell to get trump to go to war with iran, but i realize my reflexes aren't always right, so i looked it up and it turns out, yes, it's obviously an israeli lie and the only reason you'd believe it is because you really want to.
      - rayiner 22d ago
        There was DOJ prosecution under the Biden administration: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx28x187rmko https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx28x187rmko. I'm going to believe Biden's DOJ over Iran...
  - LorenPechtel 22d ago
    The problem existed anyway. Pushing it into open conflict doesn't change that.
    - deleted 22d ago
      [deleted]
mikem170 22d ago
> Just to be clear: the current situation is a huge mess caused by one deranged leader. Agreed. The situation is worse than before the U.S. attack. Iran has proven they can control the straight, threatening the world's energy supply. This is a more powerful weapon than a nuke (which multiple agencies, including U.S. intel, said they didn't have when this all started). New leadership in Iran is more galvanized against the U.S. than ever. The U.S. already lost this war. Iran is dictating terms. Allies in the region have seen that the U.S. cannot protect them, and are making other accomodations, reducing U.S. influence in the region and beyond.
- chasd00 22d ago
  > The U.S. already lost this war. Iran is dictating terms. Allies in the region have seen that the U.S. cannot protect them, and are making other accomodations, reducing U.S. influence in the region and beyond. literally no part of this sentence is accurate.
  - mikem170 22d ago
    > literally no part of this sentence is accurate Let me break it down some for you, and anyone else who may be interested: 1) Iran is dictating terms Look how often Trump has changed his story on how long the war will last [0]: > March 2, We will easily prevail. We're already substantially ahead of our time projections > March 9, We're ahead of our initial timeline by a lot. I would say that we probably would not have thought after a month we'd be here > March 17, We'll be leaving in pretty much the very near future > March 31, I think two or three weeks > April 1, I'm pleased to say that these core strategic objectives are nearing completion > June 11, We just made a great settlement of the war with Iran > Aug. 6, I think it's going to end pretty soon Now he's sayign the war will be over right after the midterms [1]. Then there's all the times he said the straight was open, when Iran still was able to strike ships trying to transit. Does that sound like someone who is in control of events? I've never heard a U.S. president who was wrong so many times. 2) Allies in the region have seen that the U.S. cannot protect them > During the conflict, Iran reportedly carried out attacks or hostile actions against multiple countries and targets across the region, including Israel, Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman—where specific incidents involved ports and ships—Qatar, the United Arab Emirates, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Iraq, Turkey, the British overseas territory of Akrotiri and Dhekelia, and the West Bank. Additional alleged activity was reported in Azerbaijan, while maritime targets included vessels of the United States Navy and Thai-flagged ships operating in the region. [2] The above page includes a detailed list of all of the above attacks [3] and caulaties [4]. More ally citizens have been killed than U.S. military personel. Trump even threatened to bomb an ally at one point: > President Donald Trump has threatened to bomb Oman - a US ally - if it "gets in the way" of his administration's own talks with Iran, Fox News reports. [5] And now the war is expanding, with the Saudis, a U.S. ally, being attacked: > Yemen's Tehran-backed Houthis attacked four cities in the south of U.S. ally Saudi Arabia on Tuesday, wounding more than 70 people and setting oil installations ablaze. [6] The Saudis and even some of our European allies are restricting U.S. air traffic [7] 3) and are making other accomodations Regional powers are making alliances amongst themselves, alliances that do not include the Unites States: > The Mecca Joint Defence Agreement, formally the Mecca Defence Alliance, is a defence pact between Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and Turkey signed into force on 7 August 2026 [8] 4)reducing U.S. influence in the region and beyond China is using this as an opportunity to increase their influence in the region: > Iran expresses willingness to continue diplomatic negotiations but vows to defend its sovereignty firmly, appreciating China's role in regional peace and seeking deeper cooperation with China. [9] The U.S. has shown itself as incapable of securing shipping in this straight, and, by implication, other strategic straights. Countries have seen how having U.S. bases in their territories become a liability, drawing enemy fire, enemy fire that the U.S. is not able to intercept. This will echo for a loong time. A large part of U.S. influence, and related military and economic power, was build-up over 80 years. Eighty Years of alliances and goodwill. And all that is very much in decline. [0] https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2026/08/28/donald-trump-iran-war-timeline-responses/91453777007/ https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2026/08/28/donal... [1] https://www.politico.com/news/2026/09/09/trump-iran-war-end-midterms-01069191 https://www.politico.com/news/2026/09/09/trump-iran-war-end-... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_attacks_during_the_2026_Iran_war#Iranian_and_allies_response https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_attacks_during_the_202... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_attacks_during_the_2026_Iran_war#Iranian_and_allies_response https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_attacks_during_the_202... [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_attacks_during_the_2026_Iran_war#Casualties_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_attacks_during_the_202... [5] https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy5dzk0ryzdo https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy5dzk0ryzdo [6] https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2026/09/08/iran-crisis-houthis-attack-saudi-cities/91654617007/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2026/09/08/iran-cr... [7] https://saudipress.com/saudi-arabia-bars-u-s-bases-and-airspace-for-any-potential-strike-on-iran https://saudipress.com/saudi-arabia-bars-u-s-bases-and-airsp...][https://cde.news/italy-denies-sigonella-use-to-u-s-war-flights/ https://cde.news/italy-denies-sigonella-use-to-u-s-war-fligh...][https://www.wionews.com/world/uk-refuses-us-request-to-use-raf-bases-for-potential-strikes-on-iran-1771518299636 https://www.wionews.com/world/uk-refuses-us-request-to-use-r... [8] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mecca_Joint_Defence_Agreement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mecca_Joint_Defence_Agreement [9] https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/china-actively-committed-to-iran-talks-with-tensions-rising https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/china-actively-c...

ericmay 22d ago

> Just to be clear: the current situation is a huge mess caused by one deranged leader. Sorry that's just dead wrong. This doesn't happen in a vacuum. I mean you could simply add Netanyahu and make your statement incorrect here. Nevermind all the other actors, Iran's deranged death cult, and more.

pasquinelli 22d ago
no, it is just trump. netanyahu's been pushing for this for decades, but prior presidents just didn't let themselves be pushed. as for iran, they've been the picture of restraint since trump's first term.
- rayiner 22d ago
  > as for iran, they've been the picture of restraint since trump's first term. They tried to assassinate Trump, before he did any of this!
  - pasquinelli 22d ago
    my reflex was to think that sounds like a lie israel would tell to get trump to go to war with iran, but i realize my reflexes aren't always right, so i looked it up and it turns out, yes, it's obviously an israeli lie and the only reason you'd believe it is because you really want to.
    - rayiner 22d ago
      There was DOJ prosecution under the Biden administration: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx28x187rmko https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx28x187rmko. I'm going to believe Biden's DOJ over Iran...
- LorenPechtel 22d ago
  The problem existed anyway. Pushing it into open conflict doesn't change that.
  - deleted 22d ago
    [deleted]

mikem170 22d ago

> Just to be clear: the current situation is a huge mess caused by one deranged leader. Agreed. The situation is worse than before the U.S. attack. Iran has proven they can control the straight, threatening the world's energy supply. This is a more powerful weapon than a nuke (which multiple agencies, including U.S. intel, said they didn't have when this all started). New leadership in Iran is more galvanized against the U.S. than ever. The U.S. already lost this war. Iran is dictating terms. Allies in the region have seen that the U.S. cannot protect them, and are making other accomodations, reducing U.S. influence in the region and beyond.

chasd00 22d ago
> The U.S. already lost this war. Iran is dictating terms. Allies in the region have seen that the U.S. cannot protect them, and are making other accomodations, reducing U.S. influence in the region and beyond. literally no part of this sentence is accurate.
- mikem170 22d ago
  > literally no part of this sentence is accurate Let me break it down some for you, and anyone else who may be interested: 1) Iran is dictating terms Look how often Trump has changed his story on how long the war will last [0]: > March 2, We will easily prevail. We're already substantially ahead of our time projections > March 9, We're ahead of our initial timeline by a lot. I would say that we probably would not have thought after a month we'd be here > March 17, We'll be leaving in pretty much the very near future > March 31, I think two or three weeks > April 1, I'm pleased to say that these core strategic objectives are nearing completion > June 11, We just made a great settlement of the war with Iran > Aug. 6, I think it's going to end pretty soon Now he's sayign the war will be over right after the midterms [1]. Then there's all the times he said the straight was open, when Iran still was able to strike ships trying to transit. Does that sound like someone who is in control of events? I've never heard a U.S. president who was wrong so many times. 2) Allies in the region have seen that the U.S. cannot protect them > During the conflict, Iran reportedly carried out attacks or hostile actions against multiple countries and targets across the region, including Israel, Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman—where specific incidents involved ports and ships—Qatar, the United Arab Emirates, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Iraq, Turkey, the British overseas territory of Akrotiri and Dhekelia, and the West Bank. Additional alleged activity was reported in Azerbaijan, while maritime targets included vessels of the United States Navy and Thai-flagged ships operating in the region. [2] The above page includes a detailed list of all of the above attacks [3] and caulaties [4]. More ally citizens have been killed than U.S. military personel. Trump even threatened to bomb an ally at one point: > President Donald Trump has threatened to bomb Oman - a US ally - if it "gets in the way" of his administration's own talks with Iran, Fox News reports. [5] And now the war is expanding, with the Saudis, a U.S. ally, being attacked: > Yemen's Tehran-backed Houthis attacked four cities in the south of U.S. ally Saudi Arabia on Tuesday, wounding more than 70 people and setting oil installations ablaze. [6] The Saudis and even some of our European allies are restricting U.S. air traffic [7] 3) and are making other accomodations Regional powers are making alliances amongst themselves, alliances that do not include the Unites States: > The Mecca Joint Defence Agreement, formally the Mecca Defence Alliance, is a defence pact between Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and Turkey signed into force on 7 August 2026 [8] 4)reducing U.S. influence in the region and beyond China is using this as an opportunity to increase their influence in the region: > Iran expresses willingness to continue diplomatic negotiations but vows to defend its sovereignty firmly, appreciating China's role in regional peace and seeking deeper cooperation with China. [9] The U.S. has shown itself as incapable of securing shipping in this straight, and, by implication, other strategic straights. Countries have seen how having U.S. bases in their territories become a liability, drawing enemy fire, enemy fire that the U.S. is not able to intercept. This will echo for a loong time. A large part of U.S. influence, and related military and economic power, was build-up over 80 years. Eighty Years of alliances and goodwill. And all that is very much in decline. [0] https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2026/08/28/donald-trump-iran-war-timeline-responses/91453777007/ https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2026/08/28/donal... [1] https://www.politico.com/news/2026/09/09/trump-iran-war-end-midterms-01069191 https://www.politico.com/news/2026/09/09/trump-iran-war-end-... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_attacks_during_the_2026_Iran_war#Iranian_and_allies_response https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_attacks_during_the_202... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_attacks_during_the_2026_Iran_war#Iranian_and_allies_response https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_attacks_during_the_202... [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_attacks_during_the_2026_Iran_war#Casualties_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_attacks_during_the_202... [5] https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy5dzk0ryzdo https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy5dzk0ryzdo [6] https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2026/09/08/iran-crisis-houthis-attack-saudi-cities/91654617007/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2026/09/08/iran-cr... [7] https://saudipress.com/saudi-arabia-bars-u-s-bases-and-airspace-for-any-potential-strike-on-iran https://saudipress.com/saudi-arabia-bars-u-s-bases-and-airsp...][https://cde.news/italy-denies-sigonella-use-to-u-s-war-flights/ https://cde.news/italy-denies-sigonella-use-to-u-s-war-fligh...][https://www.wionews.com/world/uk-refuses-us-request-to-use-raf-bases-for-potential-strikes-on-iran-1771518299636 https://www.wionews.com/world/uk-refuses-us-request-to-use-r... [8] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mecca_Joint_Defence_Agreement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mecca_Joint_Defence_Agreement [9] https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/china-actively-committed-to-iran-talks-with-tensions-rising https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/china-actively-c...