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I always wonder if anyone else considers BS jobs societies implict UBI? And that losing them is actually not a good thing. Its not like stock ownership is equit

I always wonder if anyone else considers BS jobs societies implict UBI? And that losing them is actually not a good thing. Its not like stock ownership is equitable or anything.

js8 20d ago
Graeber actually points out that centrally-planned economies had formally higher work hours than was the reality (people slacked off more), and that it was akin to workers collectively making a choice working less for the overall lower production. But the obvious problem is that it's still a societal taboo, so it's not UBI because it's not universal. It's probably lot more efficient to actually openly embrace shorter work hours, so that people can stop pretending and choose to do something more useful. Also, existence of BS jobs is often driven by high status individuals, so it is comparatively less free than UBI.
- swed420 20d ago
  > It's probably lot more efficient to actually openly embrace shorter work hours This bill proposes that: https://www.newsweek.com/new-bill-32-hour-work-week-how-it-would-work-12431766 https://www.newsweek.com/new-bill-32-hour-work-week-how-it-w...
yowayb 20d ago
I think this is true. I also think a lot of co-workers actually like each other.
AnthonyMouse 20d ago
> I always wonder if anyone else considers BS jobs societies implict UBI? BS jobs are the anti-UBI. With a UBI you get to avoid starvation even if you refuse to take a job which is excessively dangerous or degrading or low-paying, which in turn exerts pressure on those jobs to improve conditions or pay. You get more runway to start a business instead of being forced to work for someone else because you need to make rent today rather than a year from now when your new venture is off the ground. It allows you to be actually productive by your own metrics rather than getting taken advantage of for lack of alternatives. Whereas BS jobs create the illusion of productivity. You get to avoid starvation by digging holes and filling them back in, but now you're wasting all day doing something useless instead of spending that time starting your business or going to school, so you end up stuck in the BS job forever. Which helps neither society nor you compared to you still getting the money and then letting you choose what to do with your time.

I always wonder if anyone else considers BS jobs societies implict UBI? And that losing them is actually not a good thing. Its not like stock ownership is equitable or anything.

js8 20d ago

Graeber actually points out that centrally-planned economies had formally higher work hours than was the reality (people slacked off more), and that it was akin to workers collectively making a choice working less for the overall lower production. But the obvious problem is that it's still a societal taboo, so it's not UBI because it's not universal. It's probably lot more efficient to actually openly embrace shorter work hours, so that people can stop pretending and choose to do something more useful. Also, existence of BS jobs is often driven by high status individuals, so it is comparatively less free than UBI.

swed420 20d ago
> It's probably lot more efficient to actually openly embrace shorter work hours This bill proposes that: https://www.newsweek.com/new-bill-32-hour-work-week-how-it-would-work-12431766 https://www.newsweek.com/new-bill-32-hour-work-week-how-it-w...

yowayb 20d ago

I think this is true. I also think a lot of co-workers actually like each other.

AnthonyMouse 20d ago

> I always wonder if anyone else considers BS jobs societies implict UBI? BS jobs are the anti-UBI. With a UBI you get to avoid starvation even if you refuse to take a job which is excessively dangerous or degrading or low-paying, which in turn exerts pressure on those jobs to improve conditions or pay. You get more runway to start a business instead of being forced to work for someone else because you need to make rent today rather than a year from now when your new venture is off the ground. It allows you to be actually productive by your own metrics rather than getting taken advantage of for lack of alternatives. Whereas BS jobs create the illusion of productivity. You get to avoid starvation by digging holes and filling them back in, but now you're wasting all day doing something useless instead of spending that time starting your business or going to school, so you end up stuck in the BS job forever. Which helps neither society nor you compared to you still getting the money and then letting you choose what to do with your time.