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Yes because everyone wants a massive EV with a degraded 10 year old battery

by bix6 28d ago

toomuchtodo 28d ago
EV batteries outlast the car. Unsophisticated consumers are still learning this though, so it is understandable when they don't realize it. EV batteries last longer than drivers feared - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49613527 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49613527 - September 2026 (3 comments) Retired EV Batteries Scored a New Gig: Bolstering Texas’ Grid - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47143967 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47143967 - February 2026 (0 comments) Most EV batteries outlast their cars, real-world data shows - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47083580 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47083580 - February 2026 (0 comments) https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=ev%20batteries%20last&sort=byDate&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
- bix6 28d ago
  Ok so your first link. Goes to leaf forum. User replaced battery with a bigger one. Your second link. Texas takes batteries no longer suitable for car and makes grid. Neither of those is a decade old car running on its original battery. And I also said degrade which we know is true. What’s your point?
  - toomuchtodo 28d ago
    Your point is false. Batteries last long enough, there is no massive degradation at 10 years, and you have no data to prove that assertion. Whether you believe it or not, heh, that's up to you, believe what you want. Facts are facts. EV Batteries Are Defying Expectations After Hundreds of Thousands of Miles - https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/ev-batteries-are-defying-expectations-after-hundreds-of-thousands-of-miles-8579de13 https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/ev-batteries-are-defying-... | https://archive.today/2RFo3 https://archive.today/2RFo3 - July 4th, 2026 > Industry experts think newfound knowledge of battery durability is a game-changer for consumer confidence in EVs > Richard Symons recently took his five-year-old Tesla Model 3 on a 260-mile road trip across England without having to stop for a charge. > A new electric vehicle could make the trip no-problem. But Symons’s car—which he has affectionately nicknamed “Miles”—has logged 247,000 miles and is still up for frequent long-distance drives. “They are proving themselves to be exceptionally reliable,” Symons said. > After five years on the road, the average EV will still be able to drive up to 95% of its original range, according to Recurrent, a data-science company that provides a battery-monitoring tool for EVs—better than many in the auto industry expected. > When early EVs hit the market, buyers’ concerns were well-founded. Roughly one in 12 EVs built from 2011 to 2016 have had to have battery replacements. But new data shows that more modern EVs are doing better so far. Among EVs built from 2022 on, 0.3% have had battery replacements, according to a 2025 study from Recurrent. EV Battery Health after 250 Million Electric Car Miles - https://www.recurrentauto.com/research/lessons-in-electric-car-battery-health https://www.recurrentauto.com/research/lessons-in-electric-c... - May 17th, 2023 > 250 million is a lot. That’s how many miles Recurrent vehicles have driven since they connected to our services to monitor their EV performance and health. There are some optimistic, high level takeaways in all this data. For most EVs, the lithium ion batteries are in quite good shape and only 1.5% have been replaced in Recurrent's community of 15,000 cars. Battery replacements due to excessive degradation are very rare. Heat, high voltage, and extreme state of charge degrade batteries the fastest. We generally see 1-2% range degradation per year. (my 2018 Model S with ~150k miles on it has ~7-8% degradation after 8 years of aggressive use, the majority of charing done at fast DC Superchargers across the US; the only maintenance it has needed has been tires, wiper blades, wiper fluid, and a replacement battery pack heater to condition the pack for fast DC charging, which has been obsoleted in newer revisions)
    - bix6 28d ago
      > Yes because everyone wants a massive EV with a degraded 10 year old battery I said batteries are degraded at 10 years old. Your 8 year old car is 7% degraded. How is my point false? And to quote you > We generally see 1-2% range degradation per year.
      - toomuchtodo 28d ago
        You believe the degradation is material, all of the evidence says that it is not. I suppose we agree to disagree then. I don't have strong feelings on the topic, if folks want to keep paying for fossil fuels at these prices, or higher prices, versus driving an electric vehicle, good luck to them. That's a choice. Natural consequences are important to encourage better outcomes.
        bix6 28d ago
        The evidence you showed like a leaf owner swapping for a bigger battery? 10% degradation is material and noticeable.
        toomuchtodo 28d ago
        My citations specifically speak to your example as being no longer relevant due to state of the art battery pack management. Please read them again. No one builds air cooled battery packs like the leaf had that were highly prone to failure. Battery pack architecture and management operations have continually been improved over the last two decades to improve longevity.
cosmic_cheese 28d ago
It’s not just old EVs that are cheap, it’s 1-3 year old low mileage off lease models too. My numbers may a bit out of date but for example, depending on the trim and mileage, the Nissan Ariya can be be had at between $15-$25k (with MSRP being over double that) and they only started selling those in 2023. Ariya’s thus far have shown great battery degradation too, with high mileage drivers (Uber etc) reporting 99% capacity. And that’s just one model. There’s also Kia EV6/EV9, Hyundai Ioniq 5/9, VW ID.4, Mustang Mach-E, and several others of a similar vintage that are similarly deeply discounted despite low miles. It’s thanks to the many lease deals, tax rebates, etc bringing down their market value.
- bix6 28d ago
  Trump killed all rebates. Ariya builds buffer in to mask early degradation. All but one Ariya in my area are $20k+. A well specced is $30k. The math does not work if you own a functioning car unless you are willing to substantially downgrade.
  - cosmic_cheese 28d ago
    I had heard that prices went up as a result of the oil supply crunch. Not seeing where the downgrade is, though. Even the cheaper trims of Ariya are nicer, better equipped, and more powerful than any new car in the low-mid 20s price range and the used ICE car market is entirely nonsensical, with some 1-3 year old used entry level models selling for almost as much as their new counterparts and popular 10 year old models that already have half their lifetime miles selling for north of $20-$25k.
    - bix6 28d ago
      Because to purely swap for an EV I have to take my well specced current car, sell it, and buy a lesser specced EV (unless I bring additional cash to the table). And only then might I break even after years of lower maintenance / refueling costs.
AnnikaL 28d ago
This year I bought a 5 year old compact electric SUV with 94% reported battery health (gets about 20 miles under its EPA-estimated range) for under $12k.
- bix6 28d ago
  Which car and where? Did you sell your old car 1:1 to get it?

Yes because everyone wants a massive EV with a degraded 10 year old battery

by bix6 28d ago

Yes because everyone wants a massive EV with a degraded 10 year old battery

EV batteries outlast the car. Unsophisticated consumers are still learning this though, so it is understandable when they don't realize it. EV batteries last longer than drivers feared - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49613527 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49613527 - September 2026 (3 comments) Retired EV Batteries Scored a New Gig: Bolstering Texas’ Grid - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47143967 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47143967 - February 2026 (0 comments) Most EV batteries outlast their cars, real-world data shows - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47083580 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47083580 - February 2026 (0 comments) https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=ev%20batteries%20last&sort=byDate&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

bix6 28d ago
Ok so your first link. Goes to leaf forum. User replaced battery with a bigger one. Your second link. Texas takes batteries no longer suitable for car and makes grid. Neither of those is a decade old car running on its original battery. And I also said degrade which we know is true. What’s your point?
- toomuchtodo 28d ago
  Your point is false. Batteries last long enough, there is no massive degradation at 10 years, and you have no data to prove that assertion. Whether you believe it or not, heh, that's up to you, believe what you want. Facts are facts. EV Batteries Are Defying Expectations After Hundreds of Thousands of Miles - https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/ev-batteries-are-defying-expectations-after-hundreds-of-thousands-of-miles-8579de13 https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/ev-batteries-are-defying-... | https://archive.today/2RFo3 https://archive.today/2RFo3 - July 4th, 2026 > Industry experts think newfound knowledge of battery durability is a game-changer for consumer confidence in EVs > Richard Symons recently took his five-year-old Tesla Model 3 on a 260-mile road trip across England without having to stop for a charge. > A new electric vehicle could make the trip no-problem. But Symons’s car—which he has affectionately nicknamed “Miles”—has logged 247,000 miles and is still up for frequent long-distance drives. “They are proving themselves to be exceptionally reliable,” Symons said. > After five years on the road, the average EV will still be able to drive up to 95% of its original range, according to Recurrent, a data-science company that provides a battery-monitoring tool for EVs—better than many in the auto industry expected. > When early EVs hit the market, buyers’ concerns were well-founded. Roughly one in 12 EVs built from 2011 to 2016 have had to have battery replacements. But new data shows that more modern EVs are doing better so far. Among EVs built from 2022 on, 0.3% have had battery replacements, according to a 2025 study from Recurrent. EV Battery Health after 250 Million Electric Car Miles - https://www.recurrentauto.com/research/lessons-in-electric-car-battery-health https://www.recurrentauto.com/research/lessons-in-electric-c... - May 17th, 2023 > 250 million is a lot. That’s how many miles Recurrent vehicles have driven since they connected to our services to monitor their EV performance and health. There are some optimistic, high level takeaways in all this data. For most EVs, the lithium ion batteries are in quite good shape and only 1.5% have been replaced in Recurrent's community of 15,000 cars. Battery replacements due to excessive degradation are very rare. Heat, high voltage, and extreme state of charge degrade batteries the fastest. We generally see 1-2% range degradation per year. (my 2018 Model S with ~150k miles on it has ~7-8% degradation after 8 years of aggressive use, the majority of charing done at fast DC Superchargers across the US; the only maintenance it has needed has been tires, wiper blades, wiper fluid, and a replacement battery pack heater to condition the pack for fast DC charging, which has been obsoleted in newer revisions)
  - bix6 28d ago
    > Yes because everyone wants a massive EV with a degraded 10 year old battery I said batteries are degraded at 10 years old. Your 8 year old car is 7% degraded. How is my point false? And to quote you > We generally see 1-2% range degradation per year.
    - toomuchtodo 28d ago
      You believe the degradation is material, all of the evidence says that it is not. I suppose we agree to disagree then. I don't have strong feelings on the topic, if folks want to keep paying for fossil fuels at these prices, or higher prices, versus driving an electric vehicle, good luck to them. That's a choice. Natural consequences are important to encourage better outcomes.
      - bix6 28d ago
        The evidence you showed like a leaf owner swapping for a bigger battery? 10% degradation is material and noticeable.
        toomuchtodo 28d ago
        My citations specifically speak to your example as being no longer relevant due to state of the art battery pack management. Please read them again. No one builds air cooled battery packs like the leaf had that were highly prone to failure. Battery pack architecture and management operations have continually been improved over the last two decades to improve longevity.

cosmic_cheese 28d ago

It’s not just old EVs that are cheap, it’s 1-3 year old low mileage off lease models too. My numbers may a bit out of date but for example, depending on the trim and mileage, the Nissan Ariya can be be had at between $15-$25k (with MSRP being over double that) and they only started selling those in 2023. Ariya’s thus far have shown great battery degradation too, with high mileage drivers (Uber etc) reporting 99% capacity. And that’s just one model. There’s also Kia EV6/EV9, Hyundai Ioniq 5/9, VW ID.4, Mustang Mach-E, and several others of a similar vintage that are similarly deeply discounted despite low miles. It’s thanks to the many lease deals, tax rebates, etc bringing down their market value.

bix6 28d ago
Trump killed all rebates. Ariya builds buffer in to mask early degradation. All but one Ariya in my area are $20k+. A well specced is $30k. The math does not work if you own a functioning car unless you are willing to substantially downgrade.
- cosmic_cheese 28d ago
  I had heard that prices went up as a result of the oil supply crunch. Not seeing where the downgrade is, though. Even the cheaper trims of Ariya are nicer, better equipped, and more powerful than any new car in the low-mid 20s price range and the used ICE car market is entirely nonsensical, with some 1-3 year old used entry level models selling for almost as much as their new counterparts and popular 10 year old models that already have half their lifetime miles selling for north of $20-$25k.
  - bix6 28d ago
    Because to purely swap for an EV I have to take my well specced current car, sell it, and buy a lesser specced EV (unless I bring additional cash to the table). And only then might I break even after years of lower maintenance / refueling costs.

AnnikaL 28d ago

This year I bought a 5 year old compact electric SUV with 94% reported battery health (gets about 20 miles under its EPA-estimated range) for under $12k.

bix6 28d ago
Which car and where? Did you sell your old car 1:1 to get it?