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I have used an iPhone for nearly four years. After playing with a Nokia Lumia 710 (WP7) for some weeks, I bought a WP8 last weak, and too be honest, I couldn't

I have used an iPhone for nearly four years. After playing with a Nokia Lumia 710 (WP7) for some weeks, I bought a WP8 last weak, and too be honest, I couldn't be happier. The thing that I really like (besides the Metro interface) compared to iOS is the integration of Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn et al in the People hub. It actually gives me more information density than the iPhone, where I have to switch between various applications to see what happened. If I want to zoom in to specific persons or groups, I just make a tile to get a subset of that information (e.g. I have a 'Family' tile for my parents, brother, etc.). Also, it comes with a lot of functionality out of the box, such as a lightweight versions of Office and OneNote, Skydrive integration, XBox Music Pass support (Spotify with a far larger catalogue), etc. It's true that the number and breadth of applications is relatively small, but the Windows Phone OS is fairly complete, and most applications that I require are available (Whatsapp, Skype, etc.). Between the apps and UI style it almost just feels to me more like a glorified feature phone. To be honest, that's a bit troll-ish, given that WP8 uses the same kernel and user interface as Windows 8 and given the functionality of the pre-installed applications.

elithrar 14y ago
> To be honest, that's a bit troll-ish, given that WP8 uses the same kernel and user interface as Windows 8 and given the functionality of the pre-installed applications. I don't see how it's "troll-ish". To an end-user, the fact that WP8 uses the same kernel as Windows 8 means nothing. It might be an exaggeration but given the rest of the comment was relatively constructive, it's forgivable. On the UI side, his major complaint is about information density (a common complaint about WP7/WP8 apps). That's definitely valid; and I say that having used WP8 (briefly) and not minding it so much (a feeling that could change over extended use). As an iOS user, Windows Phone's aesthetics are definitely appealing (and the Twitterrific app on iOS channels some of WP8, I feel), but the lack of stand-out apps and games is the real killer. No Reeder, no Instapaper, no Instagram or VSCO cam, no Byword, Sword & Swocery, etc.
- j2labs 14y ago
  Similarly, it's interesting to me that Microsoft users will tout things like hardware in their devices. No iphone user mentions hardware because they don't care. Is the device and its ecosystem a great experience or not? That's ALL that matters.
  - recursive 14y ago
    I hear about iphone hardware all the time. You've never heard praise for apple's mythical "build quality"?
    - FuzzyDunlop 14y ago
      Or the Retina display, or the 'more powerful GPU'...
      - j2labs 14y ago
        Retina display was something that had never been done. Totally worth talking about. My original point was anecdotal, so continuing on that, I've only heard game developers discuss the GPU. Most reviews of the latest windows tablet discussed the hardware. This processor and that amount of ram... I couldn't care much less.
        mikeash 14y ago
        We should distinguish between visible hardware and invisible hardware. Apple fans will talk about build quality or screen quality, but rarely about CPU or GPU stats. Apple doesn't even publish these, and you have to wait for third parties to figure out what the numbers are. I'm sure that some people will talk about how great the A6 CPU is or whatever, but few such people actually know what they're talking about when they do it. Not trying to make a value judgment here, but this is what I have seen.
        j2labs 14y ago
        Bingo.
atesti 14y ago
>To be honest, that's a bit troll-ish, given that >WP8 uses the same kernel and user interface as >Windows 8 and given the functionality of the >pre-installed applications. That doesn't matter. Microsoft had a quite good kernel with NT 4 already and Win7 has a fantastic stable kernel with many features. Win 8 has an even better kernel and yet the new metro store and start screen and all the other removed features and freedom make it a not a better OS to say the least.
meaty 14y ago
710 user here. I've been given two iPhones since I got this. I really don't like iOS even compared to an older WP7.5 device. The killer app for me is Nokia drive. There is literally nothing better out there.
- shredfvz 14y ago
  Very interesting to hear about Windows Phone navigation. How does Nokia Drive compare to Google Maps?
  - meaty 14y ago
    Orders of magnitude better for navigation. Far more up to date data, faster, speed limits on it, proper accurate turn by turn and its 100% stand alone without a network connection for all features. I did try google maps on android but it was literally littered with mistakes, lag and shoots itself regularly. Only thing it doesn't have is street view at destination but that's pretty useless to be honest at least in the UK as most of my destinations have no data availability. You will only get this on a Nokia handset. The build in Bing maps is crap. I've got a lumia 710 and an 820 at hand (I'm testing the latter before i rely on it) and both map solutions are the same. You can get the 710 for literally nothing now - less than a galaxy ace, which is a hunk of crap compared to the 710. I've used Nokia maps back in the Nokia 6303 days and its always been good. This is just a winphone port.
j2labs 14y ago
The general public is mostly ambivalent towards windows phones because it's just too late for Microsoft to be involved. It's nice that they saw the light and now believe design and usability are important but everyone already thinks of the smart phone world as being owned by iOS and Android. Microsoft is famous for saying, "developers, developers, developers", but no sensible developer will build for Microsoft when network effects are already so well established. Microsoft would have to build something at least an order of magnitude better than Apple to get the world's attention and they haven't been capable of that for many years now. Any life left in Microsoft comes from the inertia of people depending on Office. Even their latest OS got little more than a shrug from the world.
- Joeri 14y ago
  There are 6 billion mobile phone subscriptions in the world of which 1 billion are smartphones, which leaves billions of smartphones coming online in the coming decade. The smartphone market has most of its growth ahead of it. That growth will not be on iOS because apple doesn't do low-budget. That growth will be mostly on android, but there's plenty of opportunity for it to be on windows phone as well. Microsoft has made some smart moves here. They've used windows 8 as a foot in the door to get people used to metro. The pc market may be shrinking, but there are still a billion pc's out there which will gradually be replaced with windows 8. They've also made sure that windows phone runs well on low budget devices (better than android even). And they've made sure that developing apps for windows phone is easy and cheap. At this point i would not count microsoft out yet. Android is going to be the dominant player, but google seems not to care as much about the app ecosystem as microsoft. If google doesn't fix the piracy issues it's not inconceivable that windows phone becomes a more attractive platform for app developers. I hope this will be a three-horse race, as neither android nor iOS are a great fit for me.
  - j2labs 14y ago
    Branding theory goes against your claims. It's not the oportunity that matters, it's the behavior and psychology of consumers. RIM is dying for the same reason windows phone is a dud: both companies have failed to produce meaningful innovations and the public recognizes that.
rlu 14y ago
Ah, the People hub. Its integration with social networks I think is an awesome, awesome feature that is not talked about enough. I honestly don't remember the last time I used the Facebook app on the phone. You just really rarely ever need it.

elithrar 14y ago

> To be honest, that's a bit troll-ish, given that WP8 uses the same kernel and user interface as Windows 8 and given the functionality of the pre-installed applications. I don't see how it's "troll-ish". To an end-user, the fact that WP8 uses the same kernel as Windows 8 means nothing. It might be an exaggeration but given the rest of the comment was relatively constructive, it's forgivable. On the UI side, his major complaint is about information density (a common complaint about WP7/WP8 apps). That's definitely valid; and I say that having used WP8 (briefly) and not minding it so much (a feeling that could change over extended use). As an iOS user, Windows Phone's aesthetics are definitely appealing (and the Twitterrific app on iOS channels some of WP8, I feel), but the lack of stand-out apps and games is the real killer. No Reeder, no Instapaper, no Instagram or VSCO cam, no Byword, Sword & Swocery, etc.

j2labs 14y ago
Similarly, it's interesting to me that Microsoft users will tout things like hardware in their devices. No iphone user mentions hardware because they don't care. Is the device and its ecosystem a great experience or not? That's ALL that matters.
- recursive 14y ago
  I hear about iphone hardware all the time. You've never heard praise for apple's mythical "build quality"?
  - FuzzyDunlop 14y ago
    Or the Retina display, or the 'more powerful GPU'...
    - j2labs 14y ago
      Retina display was something that had never been done. Totally worth talking about. My original point was anecdotal, so continuing on that, I've only heard game developers discuss the GPU. Most reviews of the latest windows tablet discussed the hardware. This processor and that amount of ram... I couldn't care much less.
      - mikeash 14y ago
        We should distinguish between visible hardware and invisible hardware. Apple fans will talk about build quality or screen quality, but rarely about CPU or GPU stats. Apple doesn't even publish these, and you have to wait for third parties to figure out what the numbers are. I'm sure that some people will talk about how great the A6 CPU is or whatever, but few such people actually know what they're talking about when they do it. Not trying to make a value judgment here, but this is what I have seen.
        j2labs 14y ago
        Bingo.

atesti 14y ago

>To be honest, that's a bit troll-ish, given that >WP8 uses the same kernel and user interface as >Windows 8 and given the functionality of the >pre-installed applications. That doesn't matter. Microsoft had a quite good kernel with NT 4 already and Win7 has a fantastic stable kernel with many features. Win 8 has an even better kernel and yet the new metro store and start screen and all the other removed features and freedom make it a not a better OS to say the least.

meaty 14y ago

710 user here. I've been given two iPhones since I got this. I really don't like iOS even compared to an older WP7.5 device. The killer app for me is Nokia drive. There is literally nothing better out there.

shredfvz 14y ago
Very interesting to hear about Windows Phone navigation. How does Nokia Drive compare to Google Maps?
- meaty 14y ago
  Orders of magnitude better for navigation. Far more up to date data, faster, speed limits on it, proper accurate turn by turn and its 100% stand alone without a network connection for all features. I did try google maps on android but it was literally littered with mistakes, lag and shoots itself regularly. Only thing it doesn't have is street view at destination but that's pretty useless to be honest at least in the UK as most of my destinations have no data availability. You will only get this on a Nokia handset. The build in Bing maps is crap. I've got a lumia 710 and an 820 at hand (I'm testing the latter before i rely on it) and both map solutions are the same. You can get the 710 for literally nothing now - less than a galaxy ace, which is a hunk of crap compared to the 710. I've used Nokia maps back in the Nokia 6303 days and its always been good. This is just a winphone port.

j2labs 14y ago

The general public is mostly ambivalent towards windows phones because it's just too late for Microsoft to be involved. It's nice that they saw the light and now believe design and usability are important but everyone already thinks of the smart phone world as being owned by iOS and Android. Microsoft is famous for saying, "developers, developers, developers", but no sensible developer will build for Microsoft when network effects are already so well established. Microsoft would have to build something at least an order of magnitude better than Apple to get the world's attention and they haven't been capable of that for many years now. Any life left in Microsoft comes from the inertia of people depending on Office. Even their latest OS got little more than a shrug from the world.

Joeri 14y ago
There are 6 billion mobile phone subscriptions in the world of which 1 billion are smartphones, which leaves billions of smartphones coming online in the coming decade. The smartphone market has most of its growth ahead of it. That growth will not be on iOS because apple doesn't do low-budget. That growth will be mostly on android, but there's plenty of opportunity for it to be on windows phone as well. Microsoft has made some smart moves here. They've used windows 8 as a foot in the door to get people used to metro. The pc market may be shrinking, but there are still a billion pc's out there which will gradually be replaced with windows 8. They've also made sure that windows phone runs well on low budget devices (better than android even). And they've made sure that developing apps for windows phone is easy and cheap. At this point i would not count microsoft out yet. Android is going to be the dominant player, but google seems not to care as much about the app ecosystem as microsoft. If google doesn't fix the piracy issues it's not inconceivable that windows phone becomes a more attractive platform for app developers. I hope this will be a three-horse race, as neither android nor iOS are a great fit for me.
- j2labs 14y ago
  Branding theory goes against your claims. It's not the oportunity that matters, it's the behavior and psychology of consumers. RIM is dying for the same reason windows phone is a dud: both companies have failed to produce meaningful innovations and the public recognizes that.

rlu 14y ago

Ah, the People hub. Its integration with social networks I think is an awesome, awesome feature that is not talked about enough. I honestly don't remember the last time I used the Facebook app on the phone. You just really rarely ever need it.