4 ms·

Microsoft has been participating in PRISM program (SIGAD US-984XN) since 2007. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM There a

Microsoft has been participating in PRISM program (SIGAD US-984XN) since 2007. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM There are allegation that Microsoft changed Skype architecture (after buying Skype for $8.5 billion) to make wiretapping easier. " In July last year, nine months after Microsoft bought Skype, the NSA boasted that a new capability had tripled the amount of Skype video calls being collected through Prism; " https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/11/microsoft-nsa-collaboration-user-data https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/11/microsoft-nsa-...

EA-3167 28d ago
It’s genuinely amusing to see how and why people posture, as though working for MS prior to 2023 was somehow ethical. Your post arguably only scratches the surface too. I’ve concluded that most people care far more about appealing to the crowd than actually thinking by anything through.
- JoshTriplett 28d ago
  If you shame people for acting now rather than earlier, you discourage them from acting at all. Sometimes people aren't in a position to be secure enough to act. Sometimes different issues are more effective at resonating enough to break through previously cached unconsidered patterns of thought. Sometimes people don't know all the things that are going on, and act once they've learned about them. Whatever the reason, if your reaction is "took you long enough" rather than "welcome", you discourage people from acting. Don't punish the behavior you want to see more of. (Also, OP is not even an instance of what you're decrying; see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49647687 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49647687 .)
  - EA-3167 28d ago
    I’m not interested in shaming people or crediting them for superficial performances. The entire premise is ridiculous, as if the companies people are working for are somehow ethical. You’re making money from venture capitalists and tech firms, MS, Meta, X, Google, etc… which of them is any better than MS? They’re all awful in different ways.
    - JoshTriplett 28d ago
      You are dismissing people as superficial or performative when they are taking action according to their ethics. Have you considered the possibility that people are not, in fact, performing, and are just trying to be ethical? I can't tell if your actual goal here is to be dismissive of the entire concept of people caring about ethics, or if you don't think that quitting is an effective means of acting in concert with those ethics. If it's the latter, then I'd suggest that it's a start, not everyone is in the position to do even that much, and some people who do so will be able to go further. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good, particularly if someone is taking a step in the right direction.
      - EA-3167 28d ago
        You don’t have to repeat yourself, I understood your point originally, I simply disagree with both your premise and conclusions. I don’t have the same respect for people who preach “anti-Zionism” at every turn online, I’m not that gullible.
        5upplied_demand 28d ago
        If quitting a job is "performative" what would you consider a "non-performative" act? Ironically, you are doing your own preaching in your comments. It could even be described as "performative."
        EA-3167 28d ago
        Oh God I realized the issue here, I didn't make myself clear: Talking about doing something on a 4 month old account is not the same as doing it. I give credit to people for doing things, not claiming to do them in an anonymous forum they just joined. Cynical? Perhaps, but maybe if people were just a bit more cynical about believing any text on the internet just because it feels better to believe it, we'd be better off.
        slowin 28d ago
hi_im_greg_h 28d ago
We should celebrate when people make ethical choices. Not berate them because they didn't make it sooner.

EA-3167 28d ago

It’s genuinely amusing to see how and why people posture, as though working for MS prior to 2023 was somehow ethical. Your post arguably only scratches the surface too. I’ve concluded that most people care far more about appealing to the crowd than actually thinking by anything through.

JoshTriplett 28d ago
If you shame people for acting now rather than earlier, you discourage them from acting at all. Sometimes people aren't in a position to be secure enough to act. Sometimes different issues are more effective at resonating enough to break through previously cached unconsidered patterns of thought. Sometimes people don't know all the things that are going on, and act once they've learned about them. Whatever the reason, if your reaction is "took you long enough" rather than "welcome", you discourage people from acting. Don't punish the behavior you want to see more of. (Also, OP is not even an instance of what you're decrying; see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49647687 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49647687 .)
- EA-3167 28d ago
  I’m not interested in shaming people or crediting them for superficial performances. The entire premise is ridiculous, as if the companies people are working for are somehow ethical. You’re making money from venture capitalists and tech firms, MS, Meta, X, Google, etc… which of them is any better than MS? They’re all awful in different ways.
  - JoshTriplett 28d ago
    You are dismissing people as superficial or performative when they are taking action according to their ethics. Have you considered the possibility that people are not, in fact, performing, and are just trying to be ethical? I can't tell if your actual goal here is to be dismissive of the entire concept of people caring about ethics, or if you don't think that quitting is an effective means of acting in concert with those ethics. If it's the latter, then I'd suggest that it's a start, not everyone is in the position to do even that much, and some people who do so will be able to go further. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good, particularly if someone is taking a step in the right direction.
    - EA-3167 28d ago
      You don’t have to repeat yourself, I understood your point originally, I simply disagree with both your premise and conclusions. I don’t have the same respect for people who preach “anti-Zionism” at every turn online, I’m not that gullible.
      - 5upplied_demand 28d ago
        If quitting a job is "performative" what would you consider a "non-performative" act? Ironically, you are doing your own preaching in your comments. It could even be described as "performative."
        EA-3167 28d ago
        Oh God I realized the issue here, I didn't make myself clear: Talking about doing something on a 4 month old account is not the same as doing it. I give credit to people for doing things, not claiming to do them in an anonymous forum they just joined. Cynical? Perhaps, but maybe if people were just a bit more cynical about believing any text on the internet just because it feels better to believe it, we'd be better off.
        slowin 28d ago

hi_im_greg_h 28d ago

We should celebrate when people make ethical choices. Not berate them because they didn't make it sooner.