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In theory there should be nothing wrong with putting already-publicly available data online in a format digestible by the general public. The issue is that we

In theory there should be nothing wrong with putting already-publicly available data online in a format digestible by the general public. The issue is that we put permit holders on a public list in the first place. These are law abiding citizens who have registered their guns legally. Making the information public, especially in stunts like this, does nothing but dissuade people from registering their firearms to avoid being targeted like criminals by overzealous neighbors and overeager journalists.

somedayme 14y ago
But at least they have guns to defend themselves!
- DamnYuppie 14y ago
  As was mentioned above this is a silly comment. Most burglaries in the US occur when no one is home. Which is done for a reason as 50% of the people in this country have fire arms. Where as in countries such as UK with strict gun laws almost 1/2 of the burglaries are committed when someone is home.
subsystem 14y ago
"Law abiding citizens" follow the law even if it doesn't please them.
- AnthonyMouse 14y ago
  "Law abiding citizens" follow the law, tautologically. But if you want more citizens to be law abiding, one of the best ways is to make the laws less objectionable and easier to abide.
genwin 14y ago
It might instead persuade people to register their firearms, if criminals use the data to avoid these houses.
edj 14y ago
What's more, this may well provide data for would-be gun thieves to use to acquire illegal weapons. Now that they have a convenient list, they can stake out these locations, wait for the residents to leave, and break in to begin their search for guns they know will be inside.
- danso 14y ago
  Ok, ignoring the fact that this is a map of permits, you do realize that there are different kinds of permits, right? Someone's permit could be for business, which means the handgun,if they even have one, may not even be at the house. Or worse, it's conceal and carry, which means if the owner comes home when the burglar is vainly trying to find the gun, that burglar is in trouble. I know burglars may be low lifes, but they're also kind of lazy. The time it would take to thoroughly research a gun burglary could be sent going to another state and buying legal guns by the bundle.
  - edj 14y ago
    Ok, ignoring the fact that this is a map of permits Why would you ignore that this is a map? That's the point - the data is now conveniently visualized as a map... Someone's permit could be for business, which means the handgun,if they even have one, may not even be at the house. True. And your argument would be further strengthened if you pointed out that some of these are 5-year permits and some are lifetime permits. So, many of these individuals may have sold their guns, died, moved out of state, etc. Or worse, it's conceal and carry CCW permits are very, very difficult to get in New York. I know burglars may be low lifes, but they're also kind of lazy. The time it would take to thoroughly research a gun burglary could be sent going to another state and buying legal guns by the bundle. I have no idea how likely it is that criminals would use this data, only that it's now much more convenient for them to do so. Obviously non-felons have a much easier time getting guns. People who steal guns or buy illegal guns usually aren't allowed to buy them, most likely because they are already felons.
    - danso 14y ago
      - I said "ignoring the fact that this is a map of permits" because you seemed to be under the impression that this was a map of guns. Or even a map of gun owners. It is neither. You can get a license and not own a gun. - As you said, CCW is hard to get in NY, and many other states that are not shall-issue. In fact, to get a CCW permit in such a state, you often need political or business connections, which is why an accounting of who gets these favors is sometimes called for. - I have no idea how likely it is that criminals would use this data, only that it's now much more convenient for them to do so. Hello, you have just used the line of reasoning used by virtually every public information officer concerning virtually every type of public record: We don't know exactly how criminals will use it or have any empirical evidence showing that they systematically use such information, but just to be safe, we will not release this information David Simon, a former cops reporter and creator of The Wire, wrote an excellent piece a few years ago about how the police hiding public records under the guise of safety helped cover-up a police officer's incompetence: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/27/AR2009022703591.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02...

somedayme 14y ago

But at least they have guns to defend themselves!

DamnYuppie 14y ago
As was mentioned above this is a silly comment. Most burglaries in the US occur when no one is home. Which is done for a reason as 50% of the people in this country have fire arms. Where as in countries such as UK with strict gun laws almost 1/2 of the burglaries are committed when someone is home.

subsystem 14y ago

"Law abiding citizens" follow the law even if it doesn't please them.

AnthonyMouse 14y ago
"Law abiding citizens" follow the law, tautologically. But if you want more citizens to be law abiding, one of the best ways is to make the laws less objectionable and easier to abide.

genwin 14y ago

It might instead persuade people to register their firearms, if criminals use the data to avoid these houses.

edj 14y ago

What's more, this may well provide data for would-be gun thieves to use to acquire illegal weapons. Now that they have a convenient list, they can stake out these locations, wait for the residents to leave, and break in to begin their search for guns they know will be inside.

danso 14y ago
Ok, ignoring the fact that this is a map of permits, you do realize that there are different kinds of permits, right? Someone's permit could be for business, which means the handgun,if they even have one, may not even be at the house. Or worse, it's conceal and carry, which means if the owner comes home when the burglar is vainly trying to find the gun, that burglar is in trouble. I know burglars may be low lifes, but they're also kind of lazy. The time it would take to thoroughly research a gun burglary could be sent going to another state and buying legal guns by the bundle.
- edj 14y ago
  Ok, ignoring the fact that this is a map of permits Why would you ignore that this is a map? That's the point - the data is now conveniently visualized as a map... Someone's permit could be for business, which means the handgun,if they even have one, may not even be at the house. True. And your argument would be further strengthened if you pointed out that some of these are 5-year permits and some are lifetime permits. So, many of these individuals may have sold their guns, died, moved out of state, etc. Or worse, it's conceal and carry CCW permits are very, very difficult to get in New York. I know burglars may be low lifes, but they're also kind of lazy. The time it would take to thoroughly research a gun burglary could be sent going to another state and buying legal guns by the bundle. I have no idea how likely it is that criminals would use this data, only that it's now much more convenient for them to do so. Obviously non-felons have a much easier time getting guns. People who steal guns or buy illegal guns usually aren't allowed to buy them, most likely because they are already felons.
  - danso 14y ago
    - I said "ignoring the fact that this is a map of permits" because you seemed to be under the impression that this was a map of guns. Or even a map of gun owners. It is neither. You can get a license and not own a gun. - As you said, CCW is hard to get in NY, and many other states that are not shall-issue. In fact, to get a CCW permit in such a state, you often need political or business connections, which is why an accounting of who gets these favors is sometimes called for. - I have no idea how likely it is that criminals would use this data, only that it's now much more convenient for them to do so. Hello, you have just used the line of reasoning used by virtually every public information officer concerning virtually every type of public record: We don't know exactly how criminals will use it or have any empirical evidence showing that they systematically use such information, but just to be safe, we will not release this information David Simon, a former cops reporter and creator of The Wire, wrote an excellent piece a few years ago about how the police hiding public records under the guise of safety helped cover-up a police officer's incompetence: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/27/AR2009022703591.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02...