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CFC is a fluorinated gas. Its in the name. Chloroflurocarbon. So you're saying "Fluorinated gases replaced [fluorinated gasses]". CO2 is not a terrific refrige
by vel0city 1mo ago
CFC is a fluorinated gas. Its in the name. Chloroflurocarbon. So you're saying "Fluorinated gases replaced [fluorinated gasses]".
CO2 is not a terrific refrigerant. It requires comparably very high pressures to be effective and has a low critical point reducing their effectiveness in a lot of normal temperature ranges. More modern refrigerants like HFOs usually have a GWP of <1 and don't require anywhere near as high of pressures, with R-454B being around the same as R-410A.
- londons_explore 1mo agoEurope is using lots of refrigerants like r600 (isobutane) and r290 (propane). They work really well, with the downside they are very explosive. However stories of airconditioners blowing up are really rare - it seems the risk is probably worth it for the environment.
- Teknomadix 1mo agoI've been recharging the AC system on my vintage daily driver — a late 1960s Mercedes-Benz sedan — with common off the shelf campstove propane for 30 years. Keeps me cool regardless of outside Los Angeles heat. Requires a bit of care while doing a recharge, but it's nothing too crazy. My grandfather ran a dairy farm in Connecticut, he showed me this trick in the 80s. We used propane to keep all the cooling equipment in the milk houses running smooth back then. I'm curious about isobutane now.
- londons_explore 1mo agoIsobutane doesn't work well unless a system is designed for it - things like different diameters for the pistons in the compressors etc. Nearly all refrigerators/freezers in Europe are isobutane, and have been for 20 years.
- sidewndr46 1mo agoPropane, butane, etc. are not explosives. They are not going to just energetically decompose. They are combustible, but it turns out most things worth having on earth are combustible
- londons_explore 1mo agoIndeed - it is only explosive when it leaks out and mixes with air in the correct quantities. Unfortunately this happens occasionally - with the common case being someone trying to use a knife to get ice out of a freezer or AC which is frozen up and accidentally cutting into a pipe.
- vel0city 1mo agohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzdnUZReoLM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzdnUZReoLM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJJvG10tUAw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJJvG10tUAw They're pretty explosive when they have the right mix with air. This can easily happen in, say, a utility closet with a water heater or air handler, or a fridge in a kitchen, etc. A small leak on the outside unit probably isn't going to be a big risk. A small leak on a unit in a closet with stuff that sometimes makes small sparks...
- thelastgallon 1mo ago> So you're saying "Fluorinated gases replaced [fluorinated gasses]". Thanks! Could've worded it better.
- vel0city 1mo agoLooking back at the comment I probably come across as overly hash, sorry. FWIW, one of the biggest negatives to HFOs is that while they rapidly break down in the atmosphere they end up producing trifluoroacetic acid. This stuff then rains back down, and is a polyfluoroalkyl substance (PFAS).
- TSiege 1mo agodefinitely less than ideal
- thelastgallon 1mo agoNo worries, high quality feedback, regardless of how it comes across, is welcome. People are from many different cultures and have different tones. I comment because I know someone who knows more (or can articulate better) can chime in. I learnt something, there is another side-effect of HFOs, PFAS raining down.
- pfdietz 1mo agoR-454B contains HFO-1234yf, which has a trifluoromethyl group. Upon release to the atmosphere this ultimately forms trifluoroacetic acid, which has an extremely long residence time in the oceans (perhaps as much as millions of years, if I understand correctly).