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> Bars and churches and friends are way cheaper and more accessible in red states. Just as a curiosity, as I don't have any experience of red states myself, ho

> Bars and churches and friends are way cheaper and more accessible in red states. Just as a curiosity, as I don't have any experience of red states myself, how easy would it be for a closet homosexual to come out and get support from their bar, churches and friends in a red state, typically?

eastbound 25d ago
[flagged]
- toomuchtodo 25d ago
  I empathize with the straight white Christian as a fellow human, and wish them support (I donate to organizations that provide crisis support, but this does not scale, we need more scale [community building via robust government support imho]), but also recognize that religious belief is rapidly declining in the US [1], ~100k churches are anticipated to close over the next 5-10 years [2], and so while this support should be provided to the religious folks who need it, it is not a growing or long term support need [3] (imho, specifically in the context of a religious leader providing said support) from a systems thinking perspective. Citations below for this area of the knowledge graph. TLDR This is a human support capacity and capability issue. We should fix it, to the best of our ability, imho. [1] Drop in U.S. Religiosity Among Largest in World - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45916273 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45916273 - November 2025 (1 comment) [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46484284 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46484284 (citations) [3] When Are Half Your Members Going to be Dead? - https://www.graphsaboutreligion.com/p/when-are-half-your-members-going https://www.graphsaboutreligion.com/p/when-are-half-your-mem... - January 29th, 2026 > The means are denoted in red, and you can see that most of the numbers are at least 55 years old. For instance, the average adult member of an Episcopal church is 61 years old. For Southern Baptists, it’s 58. The Assemblies of God are doing a bit better on this metric at 54. But look at the modal age for a lot of these groups—this is probably the most important metric when it comes to understanding the future of American Protestant Christianity. For many, the modal age is significantly higher than the mean. In a bunch of mainline Protestant denominations, it’s between 67 and 69 years old. For the Assemblies of God, the modal age is 69, which is 15 years older than the mean. What does this mean? Well, the mean can be pulled down by a decent chunk of younger folks. If you have a good core of 30-year-olds, they can counterbalance those 60-year-olds in that calculation. That’s not true for the mode. It gives you a much better sense of when “the tipping point” is going to come. [4] The Generational Collapse of American Religion - https://www.graphsaboutreligion.com/p/the-generational-collapse-of-american https://www.graphsaboutreligion.com/p/the-generational-colla... - January 19th, 2026 ("So why do overall levels of attendance decline? Well, because each successive birth cohort is less religiously active than the previous one. That’s the main driver of religious decline—it’s a decay function across cohorts.") As an atheist, this topic is one of many that stays on my mind and keeps me awake sometimes. How A Decline In Churchgoing Led To A Rise In ‘Deaths Of Despair’ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46408406 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46408406 - December 2025 (2 comments) Find Your People - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44074017 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44074017 - May 2025 (283 comments)
  - gameman144 25d ago
    I don't think this is an unreasonable view, but it does seem to me that the declining Christianity rates aren't super useful on their own for determining actions from a systems thinking perspective. Maybe rates are declining because the religion is legitimately not appealing, in which case your action is right. An opponent would say that it's declining because it's culturally discouraged (since even religious pockets are exposed to the national zeitgeist), in which case ignoring it would be the exact opposite of what we'd want to do.
    - toomuchtodo 25d ago
      I have thoughts on why religion is declining, and I don't believe it's because it's culturally discouraged. Young people want community, but they do not want to be told what to do by a hierarchy and spiritual leaders simply because "they say so" and related historical texts. The power and control through belief systems and hierarchy inherent to religion are breaking down. Is it because of social media [think increased velocity of cultural Overton Window and societal norm transition]? Younger people are more empowered and can support themselves while avoiding these institutions? Brain structure changing as it relates to social needs, fear, and tribalism? Hard to say yet, but I am excited to understand over time as a scholar. For comparison, Japan legislated that religious indoctrination and withholding education or healthcare from your children due to religious beliefs should be classified as child abuse. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48634883 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48634883 (citations) What it's like to close a Church with Ryan Burge - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni8DiT3Cb5g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni8DiT3Cb5g - July 26th, 2024 Forced participation in religious activities to be classified as child abuse - https://japannews.yomiuri.co.jp/politics/politics-government/20221227-79777/ https://japannews.yomiuri.co.jp/politics/politics-government... - December 27th, 2022 Government guidelines define child abuse from religious parents - https://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/14802375 https://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/14802375 - December 22nd, 2022
    - triceratops 25d ago
      > it's declining because it's culturally discouraged By whom?
- fwip 25d ago
  A sitcom making fun of a situation doesn't mean it's a real problem.
- wat10000 25d ago
  Spare me the oppression fantasy. The fricken’ governor is a straight white Christian!
  - Screaming_O 25d ago
    Come on, Newsom is as Christian as Bill Clinton was faithful.
    - watwut 25d ago
      They did not said "good person" nor "saint" nor "republicans would agree with him". They said "christian". And he is one.
    - wat10000 25d ago
      How's that? I don't know that much about the guy, but it looks like he was raised in the faith, never gave it up, and talks about how his faith influences and guides him in public life. Seems pretty Christian to me. We could debate about appearance versus true belief, but in the context of "try coming out as a straight white Christian in California" only the appearance actually matters.
- triceratops 25d ago
  That show is like 10 years old now.
randusername 25d ago
Much lower odds of default support on average, but not zero, and the odds are not uniform throughout all the red states or any given one. For example, my small town in a red state was not accepting of homosexuality in general, but my church was tolerant, and my church youth group was affirming and supportive.

eastbound 25d ago

[flagged]

toomuchtodo 25d ago
I empathize with the straight white Christian as a fellow human, and wish them support (I donate to organizations that provide crisis support, but this does not scale, we need more scale [community building via robust government support imho]), but also recognize that religious belief is rapidly declining in the US [1], ~100k churches are anticipated to close over the next 5-10 years [2], and so while this support should be provided to the religious folks who need it, it is not a growing or long term support need [3] (imho, specifically in the context of a religious leader providing said support) from a systems thinking perspective. Citations below for this area of the knowledge graph. TLDR This is a human support capacity and capability issue. We should fix it, to the best of our ability, imho. [1] Drop in U.S. Religiosity Among Largest in World - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45916273 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45916273 - November 2025 (1 comment) [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46484284 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46484284 (citations) [3] When Are Half Your Members Going to be Dead? - https://www.graphsaboutreligion.com/p/when-are-half-your-members-going https://www.graphsaboutreligion.com/p/when-are-half-your-mem... - January 29th, 2026 > The means are denoted in red, and you can see that most of the numbers are at least 55 years old. For instance, the average adult member of an Episcopal church is 61 years old. For Southern Baptists, it’s 58. The Assemblies of God are doing a bit better on this metric at 54. But look at the modal age for a lot of these groups—this is probably the most important metric when it comes to understanding the future of American Protestant Christianity. For many, the modal age is significantly higher than the mean. In a bunch of mainline Protestant denominations, it’s between 67 and 69 years old. For the Assemblies of God, the modal age is 69, which is 15 years older than the mean. What does this mean? Well, the mean can be pulled down by a decent chunk of younger folks. If you have a good core of 30-year-olds, they can counterbalance those 60-year-olds in that calculation. That’s not true for the mode. It gives you a much better sense of when “the tipping point” is going to come. [4] The Generational Collapse of American Religion - https://www.graphsaboutreligion.com/p/the-generational-collapse-of-american https://www.graphsaboutreligion.com/p/the-generational-colla... - January 19th, 2026 ("So why do overall levels of attendance decline? Well, because each successive birth cohort is less religiously active than the previous one. That’s the main driver of religious decline—it’s a decay function across cohorts.") As an atheist, this topic is one of many that stays on my mind and keeps me awake sometimes. How A Decline In Churchgoing Led To A Rise In ‘Deaths Of Despair’ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46408406 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46408406 - December 2025 (2 comments) Find Your People - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44074017 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44074017 - May 2025 (283 comments)
- gameman144 25d ago
  I don't think this is an unreasonable view, but it does seem to me that the declining Christianity rates aren't super useful on their own for determining actions from a systems thinking perspective. Maybe rates are declining because the religion is legitimately not appealing, in which case your action is right. An opponent would say that it's declining because it's culturally discouraged (since even religious pockets are exposed to the national zeitgeist), in which case ignoring it would be the exact opposite of what we'd want to do.
  - toomuchtodo 25d ago
    I have thoughts on why religion is declining, and I don't believe it's because it's culturally discouraged. Young people want community, but they do not want to be told what to do by a hierarchy and spiritual leaders simply because "they say so" and related historical texts. The power and control through belief systems and hierarchy inherent to religion are breaking down. Is it because of social media [think increased velocity of cultural Overton Window and societal norm transition]? Younger people are more empowered and can support themselves while avoiding these institutions? Brain structure changing as it relates to social needs, fear, and tribalism? Hard to say yet, but I am excited to understand over time as a scholar. For comparison, Japan legislated that religious indoctrination and withholding education or healthcare from your children due to religious beliefs should be classified as child abuse. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48634883 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48634883 (citations) What it's like to close a Church with Ryan Burge - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni8DiT3Cb5g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni8DiT3Cb5g - July 26th, 2024 Forced participation in religious activities to be classified as child abuse - https://japannews.yomiuri.co.jp/politics/politics-government/20221227-79777/ https://japannews.yomiuri.co.jp/politics/politics-government... - December 27th, 2022 Government guidelines define child abuse from religious parents - https://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/14802375 https://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/14802375 - December 22nd, 2022
  - triceratops 25d ago
    > it's declining because it's culturally discouraged By whom?
fwip 25d ago
A sitcom making fun of a situation doesn't mean it's a real problem.
wat10000 25d ago
Spare me the oppression fantasy. The fricken’ governor is a straight white Christian!
- Screaming_O 25d ago
  Come on, Newsom is as Christian as Bill Clinton was faithful.
  - watwut 25d ago
    They did not said "good person" nor "saint" nor "republicans would agree with him". They said "christian". And he is one.
  - wat10000 25d ago
    How's that? I don't know that much about the guy, but it looks like he was raised in the faith, never gave it up, and talks about how his faith influences and guides him in public life. Seems pretty Christian to me. We could debate about appearance versus true belief, but in the context of "try coming out as a straight white Christian in California" only the appearance actually matters.
triceratops 25d ago
That show is like 10 years old now.

randusername 25d ago

Much lower odds of default support on average, but not zero, and the odds are not uniform throughout all the red states or any given one. For example, my small town in a red state was not accepting of homosexuality in general, but my church was tolerant, and my church youth group was affirming and supportive.