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I never bothered Death Stranding and everything after MGS-3 has been very meh IMO. He didn't really want to make MGS 4 & 5. MGS 3 itself while an excellent gam

I never bothered Death Stranding and everything after MGS-3 has been very meh IMO. He didn't really want to make MGS 4 & 5. MGS 3 itself while an excellent game overstays it welcome after you defeat "The End" IMO. The games that he is well known for at this point are really 20+ years old.

pizzalife 26d ago
I totally disagree. Death Stranding was groundbreaking in many ways.
- froh42 26d ago
  Yes. And DS2 was somehow boring. It felt like a DLC for DS.
  - bluefirebrand 26d ago
    I don't really understand when people find more of a good game to be boring. It's ok to take a break if you're tired of the formula or whatever but I dunno To me it seems like saying "oh no, not another delicious steak today, I couldn't possibly" I guess people just prefer more novelty than I do?
    - embedding-shape 26d ago
      People gotten used to the idea of "Same as existing but more/small additions" should actually be a DLC/addon, not worthy of incrementing the number and being a successor. For those, you need to completely change the entire thing to something else, then people are fine, and it's a hit/miss if the existing players like it. Otherwise people feel like the parent, that it's just slightly different than before but incrementally improved, and should therefore be a DLC.
    - BoingBoomTschak 26d ago
      Would you say the same about more obviously artistic mediums? "Oh, their second album sounds exactly like their first which I liked!" isn't a compliment, usually.
      - bluefirebrand 26d ago
        I mean, yes? My favorite band started experimenting with different sounds and genres and while I still like their old stuff I don't care for their new stuff much I would love if they made more that sounded like their old stuff. Obviously it's their art and I don't begrudge them doing their own thing, but it was a bummer when I listened to it and felt it was no longer for me.
      - bigstrat2003 25d ago
        Yeah, of course I would. If I like a given artist's work, I want more work which is like that. I don't begrudge artists who want to do new things, but "it's just like his old work" is IMO high praise, not a valid criticism.
        BoingBoomTschak 25d ago
        There's "just like" and "just like". Understanding what allows you to stand out and making sure you don't throw it away is important, but so is avoiding stagnation. After all, creation is the essence of art. Even if the succeeding effort is just adding polish and streamlining your previous sound, it's something different in my books. In any case, in all the music discussion I've been, "artist that keeps making the same album" has always been a strong criticism very much like "one trick pony".
    - OroPla 25d ago
      Take Wolfenstein 3D (1992) as an example. Genre defining game, no question. Spear of Destiny (also 1992) is not only more of the same game, but an entire new game worth of new content. Great, but it's not part of any conversation. Then came Doom (1993). Genre defining game all over again, no question. On the other hand, you have Death Stranding (2019) and Death Stranding 2 (2025). Why did it take six years to make more of the same game?
- IslandRebel 26d ago
  How did it break ground exactly? I like MGS 1,2 and 3. I saw nothing particularly interesting about Death Stranding. I've seen friends playing it and still didn't really look that interesting.
deleted 26d ago
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proxysna 26d ago
He didn't really want to make MGS4 and MGS5 and then still made successful games. Death Stranding franchise is one of the "games that he is well known for" and it is most def not 20+ years old. Dont see your point.
- IslandRebel 26d ago
  > He didn't really want to make MGS4 and MGS5 and then still made successful games MGS4 and MGS5 were successful but I don't think they were really that good compared to the other games. I am certainly not alone when it comes to thinking that. The vast majority of praise goes to MGS2 and 3 these days. I think the original MGS should get more praise as it has the better story and at the time it really pushed what was possible. > Death Stranding franchise is one of the "games that he is well known for" and it is most def not 20+ years old. It isn't nearly as well respected as MGS 1-3. Metal Gear Solid 3 came out in 2004. > Dont see your point. The point is that Kojima work these days isn't nearly as much of a draw as it once was. If fans of the original MGS games like myself aren't that interested in his newer stuff that says quite a lot. Metal Gear Solid as far as I am concerned ended after I finished 3.
butlike 25d ago
To add on to what you're saying: he didn't really want to make MGS3 either. I believe he said in a Game Informer interview from 2001 that he wanted 2 to be the final chapter. I might be getting my source wrong.

pizzalife 26d ago

I totally disagree. Death Stranding was groundbreaking in many ways.

froh42 26d ago
Yes. And DS2 was somehow boring. It felt like a DLC for DS.
- bluefirebrand 26d ago
  I don't really understand when people find more of a good game to be boring. It's ok to take a break if you're tired of the formula or whatever but I dunno To me it seems like saying "oh no, not another delicious steak today, I couldn't possibly" I guess people just prefer more novelty than I do?
  - embedding-shape 26d ago
    People gotten used to the idea of "Same as existing but more/small additions" should actually be a DLC/addon, not worthy of incrementing the number and being a successor. For those, you need to completely change the entire thing to something else, then people are fine, and it's a hit/miss if the existing players like it. Otherwise people feel like the parent, that it's just slightly different than before but incrementally improved, and should therefore be a DLC.
  - BoingBoomTschak 26d ago
    Would you say the same about more obviously artistic mediums? "Oh, their second album sounds exactly like their first which I liked!" isn't a compliment, usually.
    - bluefirebrand 26d ago
      I mean, yes? My favorite band started experimenting with different sounds and genres and while I still like their old stuff I don't care for their new stuff much I would love if they made more that sounded like their old stuff. Obviously it's their art and I don't begrudge them doing their own thing, but it was a bummer when I listened to it and felt it was no longer for me.
    - bigstrat2003 25d ago
      Yeah, of course I would. If I like a given artist's work, I want more work which is like that. I don't begrudge artists who want to do new things, but "it's just like his old work" is IMO high praise, not a valid criticism.
      - BoingBoomTschak 25d ago
        There's "just like" and "just like". Understanding what allows you to stand out and making sure you don't throw it away is important, but so is avoiding stagnation. After all, creation is the essence of art. Even if the succeeding effort is just adding polish and streamlining your previous sound, it's something different in my books. In any case, in all the music discussion I've been, "artist that keeps making the same album" has always been a strong criticism very much like "one trick pony".
  - OroPla 25d ago
    Take Wolfenstein 3D (1992) as an example. Genre defining game, no question. Spear of Destiny (also 1992) is not only more of the same game, but an entire new game worth of new content. Great, but it's not part of any conversation. Then came Doom (1993). Genre defining game all over again, no question. On the other hand, you have Death Stranding (2019) and Death Stranding 2 (2025). Why did it take six years to make more of the same game?
IslandRebel 26d ago
How did it break ground exactly? I like MGS 1,2 and 3. I saw nothing particularly interesting about Death Stranding. I've seen friends playing it and still didn't really look that interesting.

deleted 26d ago

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proxysna 26d ago

He didn't really want to make MGS4 and MGS5 and then still made successful games. Death Stranding franchise is one of the "games that he is well known for" and it is most def not 20+ years old. Dont see your point.

IslandRebel 26d ago
> He didn't really want to make MGS4 and MGS5 and then still made successful games MGS4 and MGS5 were successful but I don't think they were really that good compared to the other games. I am certainly not alone when it comes to thinking that. The vast majority of praise goes to MGS2 and 3 these days. I think the original MGS should get more praise as it has the better story and at the time it really pushed what was possible. > Death Stranding franchise is one of the "games that he is well known for" and it is most def not 20+ years old. It isn't nearly as well respected as MGS 1-3. Metal Gear Solid 3 came out in 2004. > Dont see your point. The point is that Kojima work these days isn't nearly as much of a draw as it once was. If fans of the original MGS games like myself aren't that interested in his newer stuff that says quite a lot. Metal Gear Solid as far as I am concerned ended after I finished 3.

butlike 25d ago

To add on to what you're saying: he didn't really want to make MGS3 either. I believe he said in a Game Informer interview from 2001 that he wanted 2 to be the final chapter. I might be getting my source wrong.