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I get piñatas, but there is an extreme version of this that I find just too much. Not sure in other places, but in Spain there is a kind of fair stall where chi

I get piñatas, but there is an extreme version of this that I find just too much. Not sure in other places, but in Spain there is a kind of fair stall where children use a plastic fishing rod with a magnet or hook to catch some plastic ducks with the corresponding magnet or hook. The ducks have some points and give you rewards, but the payoff is terrible - maybe you spend €10 and you get a gift that you could buy for €2 at the neighborhood shops. And the fun part with the fishing lasts like 20 seconds, no more, and it's individual, there isn't even a competition or anything, no time limit, etc. Just catch three ducks and see how many points they give you. My 7-year-old son (who by the way loves math) always wants to go there. I can't help but explain that the payoff is horrendous from any point of view, and he understands and doesn't argue against it, but he still insists. Sometimes I convince him by offering alternatives, but sometimes I have to cave because he seems to like it so much. But man, spending euros on that stings, I have the feeling that the people who run the stall must be laughing at all the suckers who fall into the trap.

shifto 16d ago
My kids love something like this we see every year at the traveling fair. It's the same idea but with rubber duckies floating around and having to catch them with a small pole with a hook attached. It's €20 for 2 kids to have 2 minutes of fun and the payoff is a €1 Aliexpress/Temu pollution generator disguised as a toy. They play with it for a day before it ends up in the trash. The first few years I hated this for exactly the reasons you mention, but now I'm just happy they are happy. I think I have a few more years left before they don't want to go rubber ducky fishing with their dad no more and I doubt by then €20 gets me 2 minutes of joy with them.
- Al-Khwarizmi 16d ago
  In fact it's the same thing. I said fish by mistake (probably because my mind made an association with the fishing rod and what it's usually used for) but they're ducks. I have edited the comment now.
- throw0101a 16d ago
  > It's €20 for 2 kids to have 2 minutes of fun […] They play with it for a day […] Seems to me it's €20 for a day (8h? 16h?) of fun. That's not bad value: how much does a movie ticket cost for 2-3 hours?
  - triceratops 16d ago
    You missed the part where they could just buy the toy for €2. Heck they could run their own carnie games at home with Temu toys. Invite the kid's friends and it would be just as fun.
    - throw0101a 16d ago
      > You missed the part where they could just buy the toy for €2. The fact that the item was won as a prize imparts on it an (psychological) 'aura' that simply buying it does not. Related: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endowment_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endowment_effect
      - triceratops 16d ago
        Addressed by the second part of my comment.
veltas 16d ago
Don't overthink it, I think you are being a bit cynical. If your kid enjoys it then it's worth the money. If you can't afford that then find other things your kid enjoys. The reward of a game is playing it, not the 'prize', although that can add to the enjoyment too.
- bigDinosaur 16d ago
  As a parent you should absolutely think about what kind of expectations and behaviours you're setting up for the future if 'if they enjoy it then it's worth the money' is teaching kids. Sure it's not perfectly clear cut but not thinking about value at all does not end well.
marcelo-earth 16d ago
> maybe you spend €10 and you get a gift that you could buy for €2 Oh yes, I got it, they are like the claw machines that have fake bills and iPhones with them (at least that's what I saw too). But the point of having fun, you know it's a rigged game.
- mrheosuper 16d ago
  Different thing. The claw machine is basically gambling for kids. There is no skill involved.
  - Al-Khwarizmi 16d ago
    Here there's no skill involved either. It's not that you have some time to catch as many ducks as possible and if you're good at it you catch more. It's that the 10 € give you the right to catch e.g. 3 ducks, so you spend the time that you need to catch 3 ducks (typically for a 7-year-old like 20 seconds, smaller kids take some more but still not long) and then you look at the score below the ducks, which is totally random. So yeah, quite similar to the claw machine although at least they don't have the farce that you could win an iPhone (Actually you can buy more ducks to get higher scores, so the prizes need to be linear. I have seen parents spend like €50 for their kid to get a toy that could be at most €10).
astura 16d ago
I would have killed to play carnival games like that when I was a kid but they were absolutely strictly forbidden, because 1) they are obviously not worth the price (scam) and 2) prizes are just junk that we didn't have room in the house for anyways. You can just say no. I have never played a single one of those types of games in my life because once I was old enough to work I understood my parents point of view. I'm actually thankful for them teaching me these sorts of lessons no matter how much I hated at the time. It's actually okay to not allow your children participate in cons and scams.
- giov4 16d ago
  is there a price or cost for happyness? which lesson is it exactly?
  - watwut 16d ago
    1.) That gambling is not worth of money even if it is fun for a moment. 2.) Something being fun but expensive is skippable and it is good to be able to say "no" to expensive fun.
    - astura 16d ago
      Yep, for all the moralizing about sports gambling people on HN do, they sure love to prime their children for it. It also just helped me understand the value of money, which to say has served me well is a massive understatement. Plus a real understanding of the fact that there's cons dressed up as fun, not everything is as it appears. It's okay to say 'no' to high pressure sales tactics. But, again, we simply just didn't have room in the house for junk carnival prizes from a practical perspective.
      - mvc 16d ago
        > Yep, for all the moralizing about sports gambling people on HN do, they sure love to prime their children for it. Can't get through life without gambling at least a little bit. Even taking out a life insurance policy is making a bet you're going to die before it expires
bcraven 16d ago
In the UK this is called: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hook-a-duck https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hook-a-duck
ddorian43 16d ago
It's kinda like a slot machine. Or loot boxes. Kids love drugs too!
slazaro 16d ago
Well, your child is spending 0€, getting a bit of fun with a game, and getting a reward afterwards, which is randomized (more dopamine). That seems like an amazing trade. As an adult, if I went and they said it cost 0€, I think I'd play too.
orsetto 16d ago
It sounds like you've got an opportunity to set up something like this at home. You'd feel like you were getting ripped off less, and make the rewards at the fair seem less attractive to "what we have at home". The challenge, of course, is to still make it feel like a special occasion...
- uniq7 16d ago
  I think part of the thing is the scarcity of activities like this, having it for free at home will probably kill the mood. It's like video game arcades. When you had to pay to play for 2 minutes, it was way more exciting than now playing in an emulator
TheOtherHobbes 16d ago
It's the novelty and rarity. He wants an experience he can't have all the time. It's banal to you as an adult, because it's not rare or new. Adults do the same thing in more exotic and expensive contexts.
- amanaplanacanal 16d ago
  It's gambling. I think pretty much all carnival games work like that.
  - skinfaxi 16d ago
    Fundamentally, doesn't gambling require a potential payout that is more valuable than the initial input? If you can only ever get less than you put in that's not really a gamble is it?
    - bluefirebrand 16d ago
      It's still a gamble, just a really bad one for you
    - 9x39 16d ago
      One well-known definition of gambling is whether it has 3 components: a prize, runs on chance, and requires consideration (payment). That consideration > prize isn't part of this common definition.
c22 16d ago
Have you tried setting up a tub of water at home and gluing some magnets to some rubber ducks? When my son was 7 I would pay him his weekly allowance and he would get distracted and leave it on some random table and walk away. It's likely the act of fishing for ducks is more appealing in this instance than any potential ROI calculation.
- deleted 16d ago
  [deleted]
OroPla 16d ago
It's called a profit deal [1]. People don't pay to get the crap, they pay to have a fun experience and get a memento of it. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SE6Y3_EEXys&t=39s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SE6Y3_EEXys&t=39s
mitxela 15d ago
It's gambling, too. Most animals go nuts for an unpredictable reward and meh for a predictable one.

shifto 16d ago

My kids love something like this we see every year at the traveling fair. It's the same idea but with rubber duckies floating around and having to catch them with a small pole with a hook attached. It's €20 for 2 kids to have 2 minutes of fun and the payoff is a €1 Aliexpress/Temu pollution generator disguised as a toy. They play with it for a day before it ends up in the trash. The first few years I hated this for exactly the reasons you mention, but now I'm just happy they are happy. I think I have a few more years left before they don't want to go rubber ducky fishing with their dad no more and I doubt by then €20 gets me 2 minutes of joy with them.

Al-Khwarizmi 16d ago
In fact it's the same thing. I said fish by mistake (probably because my mind made an association with the fishing rod and what it's usually used for) but they're ducks. I have edited the comment now.
throw0101a 16d ago
> It's €20 for 2 kids to have 2 minutes of fun […] They play with it for a day […] Seems to me it's €20 for a day (8h? 16h?) of fun. That's not bad value: how much does a movie ticket cost for 2-3 hours?
- triceratops 16d ago
  You missed the part where they could just buy the toy for €2. Heck they could run their own carnie games at home with Temu toys. Invite the kid's friends and it would be just as fun.
  - throw0101a 16d ago
    > You missed the part where they could just buy the toy for €2. The fact that the item was won as a prize imparts on it an (psychological) 'aura' that simply buying it does not. Related: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endowment_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endowment_effect
    - triceratops 16d ago
      Addressed by the second part of my comment.

veltas 16d ago

Don't overthink it, I think you are being a bit cynical. If your kid enjoys it then it's worth the money. If you can't afford that then find other things your kid enjoys. The reward of a game is playing it, not the 'prize', although that can add to the enjoyment too.

bigDinosaur 16d ago
As a parent you should absolutely think about what kind of expectations and behaviours you're setting up for the future if 'if they enjoy it then it's worth the money' is teaching kids. Sure it's not perfectly clear cut but not thinking about value at all does not end well.

marcelo-earth 16d ago

> maybe you spend €10 and you get a gift that you could buy for €2 Oh yes, I got it, they are like the claw machines that have fake bills and iPhones with them (at least that's what I saw too). But the point of having fun, you know it's a rigged game.

mrheosuper 16d ago
Different thing. The claw machine is basically gambling for kids. There is no skill involved.
- Al-Khwarizmi 16d ago
  Here there's no skill involved either. It's not that you have some time to catch as many ducks as possible and if you're good at it you catch more. It's that the 10 € give you the right to catch e.g. 3 ducks, so you spend the time that you need to catch 3 ducks (typically for a 7-year-old like 20 seconds, smaller kids take some more but still not long) and then you look at the score below the ducks, which is totally random. So yeah, quite similar to the claw machine although at least they don't have the farce that you could win an iPhone (Actually you can buy more ducks to get higher scores, so the prizes need to be linear. I have seen parents spend like €50 for their kid to get a toy that could be at most €10).

astura 16d ago

I would have killed to play carnival games like that when I was a kid but they were absolutely strictly forbidden, because 1) they are obviously not worth the price (scam) and 2) prizes are just junk that we didn't have room in the house for anyways. You can just say no. I have never played a single one of those types of games in my life because once I was old enough to work I understood my parents point of view. I'm actually thankful for them teaching me these sorts of lessons no matter how much I hated at the time. It's actually okay to not allow your children participate in cons and scams.

giov4 16d ago
is there a price or cost for happyness? which lesson is it exactly?
- watwut 16d ago
  1.) That gambling is not worth of money even if it is fun for a moment. 2.) Something being fun but expensive is skippable and it is good to be able to say "no" to expensive fun.
  - astura 16d ago
    Yep, for all the moralizing about sports gambling people on HN do, they sure love to prime their children for it. It also just helped me understand the value of money, which to say has served me well is a massive understatement. Plus a real understanding of the fact that there's cons dressed up as fun, not everything is as it appears. It's okay to say 'no' to high pressure sales tactics. But, again, we simply just didn't have room in the house for junk carnival prizes from a practical perspective.
    - mvc 16d ago
      > Yep, for all the moralizing about sports gambling people on HN do, they sure love to prime their children for it. Can't get through life without gambling at least a little bit. Even taking out a life insurance policy is making a bet you're going to die before it expires

bcraven 16d ago

In the UK this is called: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hook-a-duck https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hook-a-duck

ddorian43 16d ago

It's kinda like a slot machine. Or loot boxes. Kids love drugs too!

slazaro 16d ago

Well, your child is spending 0€, getting a bit of fun with a game, and getting a reward afterwards, which is randomized (more dopamine). That seems like an amazing trade. As an adult, if I went and they said it cost 0€, I think I'd play too.

orsetto 16d ago

It sounds like you've got an opportunity to set up something like this at home. You'd feel like you were getting ripped off less, and make the rewards at the fair seem less attractive to "what we have at home". The challenge, of course, is to still make it feel like a special occasion...

uniq7 16d ago
I think part of the thing is the scarcity of activities like this, having it for free at home will probably kill the mood. It's like video game arcades. When you had to pay to play for 2 minutes, it was way more exciting than now playing in an emulator

TheOtherHobbes 16d ago

It's the novelty and rarity. He wants an experience he can't have all the time. It's banal to you as an adult, because it's not rare or new. Adults do the same thing in more exotic and expensive contexts.

amanaplanacanal 16d ago
It's gambling. I think pretty much all carnival games work like that.
- skinfaxi 16d ago
  Fundamentally, doesn't gambling require a potential payout that is more valuable than the initial input? If you can only ever get less than you put in that's not really a gamble is it?
  - bluefirebrand 16d ago
    It's still a gamble, just a really bad one for you
  - 9x39 16d ago
    One well-known definition of gambling is whether it has 3 components: a prize, runs on chance, and requires consideration (payment). That consideration > prize isn't part of this common definition.

c22 16d ago

Have you tried setting up a tub of water at home and gluing some magnets to some rubber ducks? When my son was 7 I would pay him his weekly allowance and he would get distracted and leave it on some random table and walk away. It's likely the act of fishing for ducks is more appealing in this instance than any potential ROI calculation.

deleted 16d ago
[deleted]

OroPla 16d ago

It's called a profit deal [1]. People don't pay to get the crap, they pay to have a fun experience and get a memento of it. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SE6Y3_EEXys&t=39s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SE6Y3_EEXys&t=39s

mitxela 15d ago

It's gambling, too. Most animals go nuts for an unpredictable reward and meh for a predictable one.