4 ms·

Making everyone poor never made the world better.

by dismalaf 1mo ago

kqr 1mo ago
Aren't "not rich" and "poor" very different things?
- FrancisMoodie 1mo ago
  For rich people who want to uphold the status quo these two things are identical, sadly.
- nickpp 1mo ago
  Most people's definition of rich is "one dollar more than I have". Just look at laptop class's hate on the 1 percenters - which actually includes them.
  - hawski 1mo ago
    What is "laptop class"?
    - dismalaf 1mo ago
      Information workers. Anyone whose whole job can be done from a laptop... They're among the most privileged workers in the world.
- dismalaf 1mo ago
  Both are relative terms so they can be the same or different depending on who defines them. Nearly everyone that works in the US is rich by worldwide standards, so it's not clear that a lack of billionaires for example would make things better. Sans Amazon, Apple or Google, would the US be better off? I'm not convinced.
bmitc 1mo ago
Getting rid of the rich by taxing them and getting rid of legal and financial loopholes that allows them to operate outside of the system with absolutely no contributions back does not make everyone poor. In fact, it's the complete opposite. Reducing wealth inequality is not the same thing as making everyone poor. And you know that.
- dismalaf 1mo ago
  Lots of counterpoints. Peronist Argentina, France under Hollande, Canada from 2015-today, etc... I live in Canada. Under the current government, business investment cratered, 40% of our 1% earners left and our GDP per capita relative to the US dropped by 40%. Keep in mind that LLMs were basically invented in Canada and we've captured next to none of the economic activity. Elon Musk, Ilya Sutskever, Andrej Karpathy and Geoffrey Hinton are all Canadian citizens lol...
  - bmitc 1mo ago
    > Under the current government, business investment cratered, 40% of our 1% earners left and our GDP per capita relative to the US dropped by 40%. With the assumption that this is true (I have no idea either way), has it made people more poor or worse off?
    - dismalaf 1mo ago
      https://www.statcan.gc.ca/hub-carrefour/quality-life-qualite-vie/prosperity-prosperite/household-income-revenu-menage-eng.htm https://www.statcan.gc.ca/hub-carrefour/quality-life-qualite... You tell me. Median household (+ individuals not in an economic family) income went up $5k from 2015-2024. Given what you've experienced inflation wise in that time period what do you think? US median household income went up $15k in that time period ($22k CAD), so >4x more.

Making everyone poor never made the world better.

kqr 1mo ago

Aren't "not rich" and "poor" very different things?

FrancisMoodie 1mo ago
For rich people who want to uphold the status quo these two things are identical, sadly.
nickpp 1mo ago
Most people's definition of rich is "one dollar more than I have". Just look at laptop class's hate on the 1 percenters - which actually includes them.
- hawski 1mo ago
  What is "laptop class"?
  - dismalaf 1mo ago
    Information workers. Anyone whose whole job can be done from a laptop... They're among the most privileged workers in the world.
dismalaf 1mo ago
Both are relative terms so they can be the same or different depending on who defines them. Nearly everyone that works in the US is rich by worldwide standards, so it's not clear that a lack of billionaires for example would make things better. Sans Amazon, Apple or Google, would the US be better off? I'm not convinced.

bmitc 1mo ago

Getting rid of the rich by taxing them and getting rid of legal and financial loopholes that allows them to operate outside of the system with absolutely no contributions back does not make everyone poor. In fact, it's the complete opposite. Reducing wealth inequality is not the same thing as making everyone poor. And you know that.

dismalaf 1mo ago
Lots of counterpoints. Peronist Argentina, France under Hollande, Canada from 2015-today, etc... I live in Canada. Under the current government, business investment cratered, 40% of our 1% earners left and our GDP per capita relative to the US dropped by 40%. Keep in mind that LLMs were basically invented in Canada and we've captured next to none of the economic activity. Elon Musk, Ilya Sutskever, Andrej Karpathy and Geoffrey Hinton are all Canadian citizens lol...
- bmitc 1mo ago
  > Under the current government, business investment cratered, 40% of our 1% earners left and our GDP per capita relative to the US dropped by 40%. With the assumption that this is true (I have no idea either way), has it made people more poor or worse off?
  - dismalaf 1mo ago
    https://www.statcan.gc.ca/hub-carrefour/quality-life-qualite-vie/prosperity-prosperite/household-income-revenu-menage-eng.htm https://www.statcan.gc.ca/hub-carrefour/quality-life-qualite... You tell me. Median household (+ individuals not in an economic family) income went up $5k from 2015-2024. Given what you've experienced inflation wise in that time period what do you think? US median household income went up $15k in that time period ($22k CAD), so >4x more.