4 ms·

People always say this, but a) even countries known for good transit like Japan still have a ton of cars for various things, and b) there's no getting around

People always say this, but a) even countries known for good transit like Japan still have a ton of cars for various things, and b) there's no getting around that the money going into self-driving cars vs public transit isn't something that can really be swapped. It's coming from a different place for a different reason. We absolutely could invest into more trains even with the SDC money flowing anyway, it's not like the SDC money is blocking it. We collectively choose not to do this, and it's not Waymo's fault.

tossandthrow 21d ago
A better idea would just be to let drivers pay the real price for the infrastructure they occupy and their negative externalities. Then people would likely not have a issue with public transit.
- rrr_oh_man 21d ago
  "Let's make car owners more miserable" is a typical sentiment held by young, healthy people who live in dense cities and ride an electric bicycle to work. Not everyone can do that. Many areas also completely lack the public transit infrastructure needed to support a normal life. E.g., a couple of days ago, I was shocked to learn just how bad the UK public transport system really is, apparently, outside of major metros (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49445286 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49445286)
  - tossandthrow 21d ago
    The gas lighting in this comment is strong. > "Let's make car owners more miserable" I proposed to let people pay for the services they use. That is not an attack on redistribution to unhealthy older people living outside of the city. In the contrary. By reducing the load on the transport infrastructure you make it easier for them to use it. And for your wish to redistribute: That can easily be done without the city making the use of the land for roads free. You could literally just give subsidies to people who absolutely need cars.
- mrngld 21d ago
  The negative externalities? On net the benefits are enormously positive, which is why every community around the world down to the very poorest, even illiterate societies (ancient civs were mostly illiterate and still built extensive road networks) will start clearing paths to make transport easier. It's an enormous social net benefit, the free, fast, efficient movement of people from one point of their choosing to another.
  - tossandthrow 21d ago
    I read that you think I am proposing to make transport more difficult. That is a very far stretch. I definitely want to make transport easier. But a 50.000 dollar ticket to entering the previlige of transport is simply not fair.
- xnx 21d ago
  An even better idea would be to let transit users pay the real price for the infrastructure they occupy and their negative externalities. Not many people would want to ride the subway if they had to pay the full price.
  - tossandthrow 21d ago
    Surely you could occupy that position. Just keep it in mind when you are stuck in your 12-lane city streets. It is a weird position though. Public transport is good for car drivers as it reduces load on the roads. Regardless of that, car drivers loathe people in public transit.
infecto 21d ago
They also always hand wave the last mile problem. Last time this came up some folks were adamant that you could solve public transit and specifically last mile in a city like Dallas. I welcome the car overlords like Waymo or related companies. I believe this is absolutely a step in the right direction and bringing up the public transit is sort of a “perfect is the enemy of good enough” situation.

tossandthrow 21d ago

A better idea would just be to let drivers pay the real price for the infrastructure they occupy and their negative externalities. Then people would likely not have a issue with public transit.

rrr_oh_man 21d ago
"Let's make car owners more miserable" is a typical sentiment held by young, healthy people who live in dense cities and ride an electric bicycle to work. Not everyone can do that. Many areas also completely lack the public transit infrastructure needed to support a normal life. E.g., a couple of days ago, I was shocked to learn just how bad the UK public transport system really is, apparently, outside of major metros (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49445286 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49445286)
- tossandthrow 21d ago
  The gas lighting in this comment is strong. > "Let's make car owners more miserable" I proposed to let people pay for the services they use. That is not an attack on redistribution to unhealthy older people living outside of the city. In the contrary. By reducing the load on the transport infrastructure you make it easier for them to use it. And for your wish to redistribute: That can easily be done without the city making the use of the land for roads free. You could literally just give subsidies to people who absolutely need cars.
mrngld 21d ago
The negative externalities? On net the benefits are enormously positive, which is why every community around the world down to the very poorest, even illiterate societies (ancient civs were mostly illiterate and still built extensive road networks) will start clearing paths to make transport easier. It's an enormous social net benefit, the free, fast, efficient movement of people from one point of their choosing to another.
- tossandthrow 21d ago
  I read that you think I am proposing to make transport more difficult. That is a very far stretch. I definitely want to make transport easier. But a 50.000 dollar ticket to entering the previlige of transport is simply not fair.
xnx 21d ago
An even better idea would be to let transit users pay the real price for the infrastructure they occupy and their negative externalities. Not many people would want to ride the subway if they had to pay the full price.
- tossandthrow 21d ago
  Surely you could occupy that position. Just keep it in mind when you are stuck in your 12-lane city streets. It is a weird position though. Public transport is good for car drivers as it reduces load on the roads. Regardless of that, car drivers loathe people in public transit.

infecto 21d ago

They also always hand wave the last mile problem. Last time this came up some folks were adamant that you could solve public transit and specifically last mile in a city like Dallas. I welcome the car overlords like Waymo or related companies. I believe this is absolutely a step in the right direction and bringing up the public transit is sort of a “perfect is the enemy of good enough” situation.