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As a biker, I've had human drivers intentionally try to drive me off the road or hit me. Neither driver education nor higher test standards will solve that prob
by johnfn 23d ago
As a biker, I've had human drivers intentionally try to drive me off the road or hit me. Neither driver education nor higher test standards will solve that problem.
- nxm 23d ago[flagged]
- leviathant 23d agoOh wow! Sounds dangerous. Do more cyclists kill drivers, or do more drivers kill cyclists?
- coqadoodle 23d ago[flagged]
- throw0101a 23d agoFewer than drivers, given that drivers tend to ignore the rules of the road more per a Danish government study: * https://politiken.dk/danmark/art7185605/Rygterne-om-cyklister-som-lovløse-banditter-er-stærkt-overdrevne?shareToken=0AfdbgAACQSg https://politiken.dk/danmark/art7185605/Rygterne-om-cykliste... * Via: https://archive.is/https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2019/05/10/cyclists-break-far-fewer-road-rules-than-motorists-finds-new-video-study/ https://archive.is/https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/... And perhaps more drivers should take up some cycling as it would make them better drivers (per a UK insurance company) * https://archive.is/https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2018/10/09/cyclists-are-better-drivers-than-motorists-finds-study/ https://archive.is/https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/... Or using motorcycles or scooters: 2013 and 2015 UK insurance reports found riders better motorists than drivers, as did a 2014 UK police chiefs survey.
- socalgal2 23d agoRidiculous and trivially provably false. (maybe Danish are different) Go to any intersection in SF or LA. Set up a camera. Count the number of cars and cyclists that break a traffic law. Cars will be 5-10% breaking the laws. Cyclists will be 95-97% breaking the laws.
- crisnoble 23d agoPlease go do it then. I've done this in San Diego, it was 19/20 failing to stop for cars, the one who did failed to stop behind the painted line. There were only 2 cyclists and they also slowly rolled through the intersection.
- socalgal2 22d agoSo, 100% bike offenders. Less than 100% car offenders. You proved my point.
- throw0101a 23d ago> […] Set up a camera. […] That's what a bunch of researchers did in Florida and found cyclists more compliant: > According to the study, bicyclists were in compliance with traffic laws 88 percent of the time during the day and 87 percent of the time at night. The observed compliance rate for drivers who interacted with participants was slightly lower, at 85 percent during the day. (There weren’t enough nighttime driver observations to report a compliance rate.) * https://usa.streetsblog.org/2018/01/03/study-cyclists-dont-break-traffic-laws-any-more-than-drivers-do https://usa.streetsblog.org/2018/01/03/study-cyclists-dont-b... * https://web.archive.org/web/20180127052846/http://www.fdot.gov/research/Completed_Proj/Summary_SF/FDOT-BDV25-977-13-rpt.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20180127052846/http://www.fdot.g...
- loeg 23d agoThis is a great example of confirmation bias.
- Zambyte 23d agoMy apartment overlooks a three way intersection. Drivers block the box almost every light cycle in rush hour. The most common traffic offense I see bikers make is riding on the sidewalk, which they obviously do because they fear being killed by drivers.
- ted_dunning 23d agoAccording to the data, not very many.
- baud147258 23d agocyclists kill (and hurt) pedestrians, just like drivers
- Zambyte 23d agoCan you back that up with numbers or do you just expect people to take your word that cyclists have killed about as many people as WWII? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties https://www.academia.edu/115164883/Car_harm_A_global_review_of_automobilitys_harm_to_people_and_the_environment https://www.academia.edu/115164883/Car_harm_A_global_review_...
- the_gastropod 22d agoVending machines kill (and hurt) people, just like guns.
- brian-armstrong 23d agoAh, in that case, you would certainly be excused for trying to kill one or two of them.
- rylando 23d agoJust don’t forget to get your wax touched up afterwards, spandex scuffs your hood a surprising amount!
- david-gpu 23d agoYou don't understand. He has seen some cyclists blow a stop sign, so he is entitled to endanger the life of any cyclist he comes across.
- bigstrat2003 23d agoHe didn't say that, and you shouldn't put words in his mouth like that.
- loeg 23d agoIt is exactly what he is saying. He's justifying "drivers intentionally try[ing] to drive [GP] off the road or hit [GP]."
- david-gpu 23d agoI am not putting words in his mouth. I am pointing out the logical error in this memetic argument that cyclists are tired of reading again and again. Whenever we mention that drivers harass and kill cyclists, there is somebody retorting that "cyclists don't follow the rules of the road", as if it somehow justified road violence against all cyclists, law abiding or not. It is a complete non-sequitur that pops up every time we point at the main source of death and dismemberment in our cities: drivers. [0] [1] [0] https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=3510006801 https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=351000... [1] https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=1310015601 https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=131001...
- rgblambda 23d agoAnd motorists definitely don't do any of those things.
- stephenhuey 23d agoFar out, dude! Have I got a story for you! This one time, I saw tons of high-speed metal on wheels recklessly do that, too!
- socalgal2 23d ago[flagged]
- L-four 23d agoMost people don't know the traffic laws both of your stats are way to low.
- welshwelsh 23d agoThose rules exist because of cars. Before cars, we didn't have red lights or stop signs, and we didn't need them. If we got rid of the cars, we could get rid of the silly requirement that everyone needs to come to a complete stop at every intersection, which only makes sense in a world where people drive 2000 pound death machines.
- rylando 23d agoI don’t think they enjoy sharing the road with you any more than you do with them. Maybe we could encourage our elected representatives to install more bike friendly infrastructure like bike trails and bikeways
- charcircuit 23d ago[flagged]
- amanaplanacanal 23d agoI'm guessing this is sarcastic, but you never know.
- cjcenizal 23d agoThink about what you’re saying. You want more traffic?
- charcircuit 22d agoRoads should be built to handle the throughput needed of them for the next several years. Adding more cars doesn't add more traffic if throughput of the pipe is big enough.
- wpm 23d agoI await your check for the purchase price of an automobile. I can also do Venmo if you prefer.
- charcircuit 22d agoI'm not interested in issuing an automobile loan to you, but there are others who specialize in this. Even dealerships themselves can help you finance it.
- My_Name 23d agoI live in a place that has what I consider to be the best cycle infrastructures possible. Every road has a cycle lane next to it, usually at least 20ft away from the road, in tree lined purpose built areas, large amounts of grass between the road and the cycle lanes, they form a grid that matches every road in the city. Where they cross the road, there are underpasses or bridges. At no point does a cyclist ever need to be on a road, often you can't even see the roads. There are still some cyclists (specifically middle aged men in spandex, never women, never dressed normally) who insist on cycling on the road, giving the finger to every passing car, who will loudly tell you to fuck off if you point out that literally next to them, about 20ft off the road, there is a cycle lane. built just for them, so they can cycle safely. Anyway, this comment is in support of the comment of johnfn. No amount of training or testing will stop the arseholes being arseholes. But it is also to point out that arseholes are not restricted to a particular form of transport.
- tverbeure 23d agoThe bike derangement syndrome in the US is truly something to behold.
- amazingamazing 23d agoWhy do you say that?
- giantg2 23d agoI imagine these same people are the type of people who would throw something out the window of an AV too.
- harha 23d agoNah I think the brain shuts down once you’re not in the driver seat. Wouldn’t see someone care enough to throw something at others from a taxi or a bus either.
- saghm 23d agoIf "road rage" is any indication, sometimes the reverse is true as well
- alexgoodhart 23d agoNah they already have tho there’s been bottles thrown shots fired people thrown from waymos Plus waymos become v spicy if someone attacks while ur in it
- alexgoodhart 23d agoThe whole premise imagines that we have a fixed set of problems that have always been this way and are fully/honestly represented by this headline article by the chief NYT industry plug… and once corporations roll out the solutions, ta ta. We’ll be rolling fancy free. With 580,000 surplus Americans to boot!
- tosapple 23d agothis happened to me twice as a child, once on a main road with a shoulder and another time on a side street with no shoulder.
- estebank 23d agoEarlier today saw a guy on a pick up truck griefing an empty Waymo by brake checking and boxing it, all over the road for about 10 minutes and over 5 blocks (no idea how much earlier it started), causing every other driver to freak out or be confused about what was going on. All the while all I could think was "you're spending your time making it more likely for a collision to happen, all to 'anger' a toaster with 360° camera coverage".
- cineticdaffodil 23d agoGood thing we get wiser with age. Oh, wait no we don't. We insist on driving while beeing unable to look over the shoulder or having dementia. Knew somebody whose by no deceased dementia afflicted father used google to navigate him home when he forgot where he was. Thats the accidents with a "confused" driver, not from the accident.
- 72deluxe 23d agoWhich country is this? In the UK they take your licence off you straight away as soon as there is a dementia diagnosis, I believe.
- astura 23d agoMost people are losing their facilities years before any formal diagnosis and plenty of people, especially those who don't want to lose their freedom simply won't go to the doctor for a diagnosis. Nobody can force someone to see a doctor.
- guy200 23d agoMy father was one of these. He lived across the country from us adult children and just seemed to be slowing down but an unrelated traumatic event exposed his early onset dementia acutely when his reactions to it were so strange. It also seemed to knock the facade off his familiarity with day to day life that was somewhat hiding his dementia. We then took him to the doctor and he was diagnosed. Luckily he did not put up a fight when we took his keys but up to that point he was driving a giant truck around every day, seemingly mostly on instinct. I am still thankful that did not end in tragedy before we were able to move him into a controlled environment.
- lynx97 23d agoAs a blind pedestrian, 95% of the pain I have to endure while out and about is due to lazily parked bikes. IOW, bikes can even hurt people if they are NOT moving and their owner isn't even around.
- rglullis 23d agoThe solution for this is to improve biking infrastructure.
- Symbiote 23d agoNot only that. Copenhagen is littered with electric hire bikes, very often just a few steps from a bike rack with empty spaces. Only one of the companies makes users photograph the bike to show it's been returned to a suitable spot.
- hobofan 23d agoPhotographing bikes or electric scooters does nothing without enforcement through the city. It allows tracking down the person who placed it wrong, but in the absence of fines through the city, the rental companies surely won't start fining their customers and drive them away.
- rglullis 23d agoThe Lime app (bikes and scooters) refuses to close down a trip if you enter an area where parking is forbidden or if the picture shows that the vehicle is blocking the sidewalk or pedestrian paths. It will also 100% forward you a fine if they get one and their records show you were the last user who misplaced it.
- lynx97 23d agoI doubt that. Across the street of our small organic shop around the corner is a bike parking spot. Still, I recently fall over a bike parked directly in front of the door of said shop. Bike people are lazy more often then not.
- Gareth321 23d agoI've been following Tesla communities and a common response to using FSD is that it makes people nicer drivers. Thousands of people admitting that they can be angry drivers. That they get frustrated in traffic and can take risks or be aggressive on the road. With FSD they almost universally claim to be calmer, care less about being cut off, and almost never experience road rage.
- ifwinterco 23d agoBest way to improve the behaviour of other drivers (at least in the UK): drive a van, ideally an unmarked one with a couple of dents already. Miraculously everyone else suddenly learns how to drive and doesn't try anything stupid
- thfuran 23d agoDriving a big van sucks though, even in the US.
- ifwinterco 23d ago[dead]
- IslandRebel 22d agoDrive an Old Defender nobody will mess with you in one of those.
- jp191919 22d agoTesla FSD is almost life changing, I'm so calm on my commute now. It's great. If I get cut off I don't care, I'm not driving.
- hliyan 23d agoInclined to agree. I think what we call "car brain" is just one manifestation of hardwired circuits in our brain that detect any (even temporary) power differential and leverages it for maximum survival advantage. There is no way to put nearly 200 horse power at the disposal of one man, without triggering at least some part of those circuits.
- mcv 23d agoSome people simply need to be banned from driving. Anyone intentionally trying to hit someone in traffic definitely qualifies.
- sandworm101 23d agoAnd in the future it will be robots pushing you around. They will learn to be intimidating. That's what AI does. It spots patterns and then exploits them for its own purposes.
- UpsideDownRide 22d agoEducation could help solve that problem but It wouldnt be of the driver kind