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I think the point is that when you're driving (at least in a combustion engine car), the 60-70dB noise floor is so high that it almost doesn't matter how good t

I think the point is that when you're driving (at least in a combustion engine car), the 60-70dB noise floor is so high that it almost doesn't matter how good the speakers are in an ideal silent, soundproof chamber.

deleted 23d ago
[deleted]
snissn 23d ago
I recommend ripping your car apart and putting sound insulation panels everywhere you can! Also replacing your sound system...
- taneq 23d ago
  Or you can just embrace the 128kbps lifestyle. :D
- rootusrootus 23d ago
  There's only so much you can do. A car is filled with funny angles, plastics, and a lot of glass. It's never going to be a particularly good acoustic environment even if you manage to shield 100% of the road noise.
  - 2III7 23d ago
    You can make it so much better than stock with proper insulation and speaker elements. Car manufacturers often use 5€$ elements which sound like shit.
    - rramon 23d ago
      You can't have a proper soundstage in a car no matter your setup, which kinda degrades a lot of music that wasn't designed for clubs. In a car it's basically background music when you're driving because you can't really give the music your full attention anyway (passive listening), where the lack of focus also masks a lot of details you'd hear on a proper stereo system (active listening). Edit: to answer your question below, I like both, active and passive listening. But I wouldn't try to optimize for active criteria like details in a passive evironment like a car, so I'd spend more money on fun things like buttkickers instead of high end detail.
      - 2III7 23d ago
        Obviously a car isn't a dedicated listening room. Music can be enjoyed by just listening to it and not focusing on all the nuances. Or are you one of those hardcore audiophiles who can't listen to music without a ultra high end sound system? Also soundstage can be greatly improved by placing speakers on non factory locations because manufacturers usually prioritize packaging above all else. A tweeter placed at the bottom of the A-pillar near the windshield is the worst possible location and sounds like it was put in a tin can. Background noise in a car also has a solution, turning up the volume. Plus getting quiet tires.
        FireBeyond 22d ago
        > Or are you one of those hardcore audiophiles who can't listen to music without a ultra high end sound system? Music lovers buy stereo systems to listen to their music. Audiophiles buy music to listen to their stereo systems.
  - Applejinx 23d ago
    Sure is for bass. It's a sealed box that you're in, with shapes that stop anything from acting like a simple room shape, and surfaces that can soak up highs, and so small that this absorption is a huge percentage of surface area. There's a reason mix engineers have always done 'check the mix in a car'. It might be way more revealing of what's happening in the bass, even when the speakers are relatively weak. Once you get anything decent, watch out. It's a bit like having your whole body inside headphones.
- imp0cat 23d ago
  That's the point, isn't it? You'd have to spend a lot of money on related stuff before audio upgrades, otherwise those audio upgrades are just money wasted.
- ExoticPearTree 23d ago
  > I recommend ripping your car apart and putting sound insulation panels everywhere you can! Also replacing your sound system... Ripping the car apart to install sound insulation might void your warranty. I have a Bose sound system in my car with 11 or 13 speakers (they're everywhere), but the car is so poorly insulated that I have to turn up the volume quite a lot at highway speeds, or even after about ~ 35-40MPH.
  - skhr0680 23d ago
    > Ripping the car apart to install sound insulation might void your warranty. On my Toyota it only involved basic removal of interior panels, I can't imagine that affecting warranty or resale
- bovermyer 23d ago
  What other effects does that have? Weight, heat, etc.
spectra-cole 23d ago
Car's have it really tough in the audio department. SO many things work against it
smallstepforman 23d ago
You also need microphones to pick up ambient sound and play it back at 180 phase shift .. There is a reason premium audio car packages cost over 2000$
the__alchemist 23d ago
I believe the disconnect is that the goal isn't to be as good quality as a controlled indoor environment; it's that there are car setups that sound dramatically better than other car setups. There is merit to your interlocutors stances, even though cars are a challenging audio environment as you point out.
FireBeyond 22d ago
Is it that high? I know that in my Audis, there's actually a system that (in sport mode) pumps engine noise -into- the cabin because the sound damping was that good. And my partner's A4 is at the point where you hear only tire noise, not engine noise. And I used to own a Jaguar XJ that (while the car itself I had to get rid of after the entire cooling system shit the bed for the second time) was the quietest car I've ever owned and not even close, despite being a 5L V8. (The Jaguar also had probably the best sound system I've heard in a vehicle - 1200W B&W 7.1 channel, 20 transducers).

deleted 23d ago

[deleted]

snissn 23d ago

I recommend ripping your car apart and putting sound insulation panels everywhere you can! Also replacing your sound system...

taneq 23d ago
Or you can just embrace the 128kbps lifestyle. :D
rootusrootus 23d ago
There's only so much you can do. A car is filled with funny angles, plastics, and a lot of glass. It's never going to be a particularly good acoustic environment even if you manage to shield 100% of the road noise.
- 2III7 23d ago
  You can make it so much better than stock with proper insulation and speaker elements. Car manufacturers often use 5€$ elements which sound like shit.
  - rramon 23d ago
    You can't have a proper soundstage in a car no matter your setup, which kinda degrades a lot of music that wasn't designed for clubs. In a car it's basically background music when you're driving because you can't really give the music your full attention anyway (passive listening), where the lack of focus also masks a lot of details you'd hear on a proper stereo system (active listening). Edit: to answer your question below, I like both, active and passive listening. But I wouldn't try to optimize for active criteria like details in a passive evironment like a car, so I'd spend more money on fun things like buttkickers instead of high end detail.
    - 2III7 23d ago
      Obviously a car isn't a dedicated listening room. Music can be enjoyed by just listening to it and not focusing on all the nuances. Or are you one of those hardcore audiophiles who can't listen to music without a ultra high end sound system? Also soundstage can be greatly improved by placing speakers on non factory locations because manufacturers usually prioritize packaging above all else. A tweeter placed at the bottom of the A-pillar near the windshield is the worst possible location and sounds like it was put in a tin can. Background noise in a car also has a solution, turning up the volume. Plus getting quiet tires.
      - FireBeyond 22d ago
        > Or are you one of those hardcore audiophiles who can't listen to music without a ultra high end sound system? Music lovers buy stereo systems to listen to their music. Audiophiles buy music to listen to their stereo systems.
- Applejinx 23d ago
  Sure is for bass. It's a sealed box that you're in, with shapes that stop anything from acting like a simple room shape, and surfaces that can soak up highs, and so small that this absorption is a huge percentage of surface area. There's a reason mix engineers have always done 'check the mix in a car'. It might be way more revealing of what's happening in the bass, even when the speakers are relatively weak. Once you get anything decent, watch out. It's a bit like having your whole body inside headphones.
imp0cat 23d ago
That's the point, isn't it? You'd have to spend a lot of money on related stuff before audio upgrades, otherwise those audio upgrades are just money wasted.
ExoticPearTree 23d ago
> I recommend ripping your car apart and putting sound insulation panels everywhere you can! Also replacing your sound system... Ripping the car apart to install sound insulation might void your warranty. I have a Bose sound system in my car with 11 or 13 speakers (they're everywhere), but the car is so poorly insulated that I have to turn up the volume quite a lot at highway speeds, or even after about ~ 35-40MPH.
- skhr0680 23d ago
  > Ripping the car apart to install sound insulation might void your warranty. On my Toyota it only involved basic removal of interior panels, I can't imagine that affecting warranty or resale
bovermyer 23d ago
What other effects does that have? Weight, heat, etc.

spectra-cole 23d ago

Car's have it really tough in the audio department. SO many things work against it

smallstepforman 23d ago

You also need microphones to pick up ambient sound and play it back at 180 phase shift .. There is a reason premium audio car packages cost over 2000$

the__alchemist 23d ago

I believe the disconnect is that the goal isn't to be as good quality as a controlled indoor environment; it's that there are car setups that sound dramatically better than other car setups. There is merit to your interlocutors stances, even though cars are a challenging audio environment as you point out.

FireBeyond 22d ago

Is it that high? I know that in my Audis, there's actually a system that (in sport mode) pumps engine noise -into- the cabin because the sound damping was that good. And my partner's A4 is at the point where you hear only tire noise, not engine noise. And I used to own a Jaguar XJ that (while the car itself I had to get rid of after the entire cooling system shit the bed for the second time) was the quietest car I've ever owned and not even close, despite being a 5L V8. (The Jaguar also had probably the best sound system I've heard in a vehicle - 1200W B&W 7.1 channel, 20 transducers).