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I guess if you're dead, then it ultimately doesn't matter if someone can be held accountable, although it might matter to your next-of-kin. But, yea, in genera

I guess if you're dead, then it ultimately doesn't matter if someone can be held accountable, although it might matter to your next-of-kin. But, yea, in general, it would take a huge (1000X or 10,000X) difference in expected outcome for me to trust something that is unaccountable. If the AI company was actually held accountable for its AI's mistakes, I'd definitely change my statement.

bdangubic 17d ago
AI is a tool just like any other tool. Holding “AI” accountable is like holding JetBrains accountable for the bugs I wrote with their tool than endangered lives of people
- pixl97 17d ago
  Heh, just wait till some sovereign AI gets loose on the internet.
- krapp 17d ago
  There is simply too much money and too many interests vested in the narrative (which many people already believe) that LLMs are thinking, feeling, sapient beings already beyond the threshold of AGI that deserve some status of legal personhood and liability. It is impossible to create the future that these people want to create - one in which AI comprises the new legal class of nobility in an age of technofeudalism - if AI remains just a tool.
  - bdangubic 17d ago
    how will this manifest itself!? like you envision a future where there will be say a hospital, ran by anthropic which is AI powered fully, no company behind it, just plain Claude running everything from the moment you walk in till you walk out? I am having a hard time imagining a future where “AI” isn’t just a tool that a given establishment decided to use much like anything else they use
    - krapp 17d ago
      > you envision a future where there will be say a hospital, ran by anthropic which is AI powered fully, no company behind it, just plain Claude running everything from the moment you walk in till you walk out Everything as much as possible, yes, and the company behind it will be an AI driven autonomous corporation as well. Although I suspect that by then there will be some industry specific AI model being used by hospitals, not just plain Claude. AI will handle patient data, diagnostics, prescriptions, everything that doesn't absolutely require a human and can't yet be done by a robot. Somewhere, some human will be making money but they will be far from any legal liability, probably safely ensconced in a bunker on a private island when the gravy train really hits the fan. >I am having a hard time imagining a future where “AI” isn’t just a tool that a given establishment decided to use much like anything else they use The people making the decisions, investing the money and writing the laws imagine so much more, though. You assume the future of AI is governed by rational people making rational decisions but it isn't, it's governed by Musk and Thiel and sociopaths and grifters and cultists who want to immanentize the eschaton so they can stand at the right hand of God.
      - ryandrake 17d ago
        You can bet that every major company CEO on the planet is creaming his jeans at the thought of AI doing every task (except their own) that they currently pay humans to do. Their ideal end state is that the company is themself, thousands of AIs and thousands of robots, zero payroll. Every one of them is dreaming of this.
        bdangubic 16d ago
        Hard agree. But even in this case though, the company behind assumes liability for "its actions", no?
        k310 16d ago
        From what I've seen of CEO's, they can be the first ones replaced. They're inhuman(e). They hallucinate, and have devoured volumes of Harvard Business Review.
bloppe 16d ago
But what's the point of holding something accountable here? Creating an incentive for them to take your needs seriously? Why does an incentive matter if you already know that one has a superior expected outcome?

bdangubic 17d ago

AI is a tool just like any other tool. Holding “AI” accountable is like holding JetBrains accountable for the bugs I wrote with their tool than endangered lives of people

pixl97 17d ago
Heh, just wait till some sovereign AI gets loose on the internet.
krapp 17d ago
There is simply too much money and too many interests vested in the narrative (which many people already believe) that LLMs are thinking, feeling, sapient beings already beyond the threshold of AGI that deserve some status of legal personhood and liability. It is impossible to create the future that these people want to create - one in which AI comprises the new legal class of nobility in an age of technofeudalism - if AI remains just a tool.
- bdangubic 17d ago
  how will this manifest itself!? like you envision a future where there will be say a hospital, ran by anthropic which is AI powered fully, no company behind it, just plain Claude running everything from the moment you walk in till you walk out? I am having a hard time imagining a future where “AI” isn’t just a tool that a given establishment decided to use much like anything else they use
  - krapp 17d ago
    > you envision a future where there will be say a hospital, ran by anthropic which is AI powered fully, no company behind it, just plain Claude running everything from the moment you walk in till you walk out Everything as much as possible, yes, and the company behind it will be an AI driven autonomous corporation as well. Although I suspect that by then there will be some industry specific AI model being used by hospitals, not just plain Claude. AI will handle patient data, diagnostics, prescriptions, everything that doesn't absolutely require a human and can't yet be done by a robot. Somewhere, some human will be making money but they will be far from any legal liability, probably safely ensconced in a bunker on a private island when the gravy train really hits the fan. >I am having a hard time imagining a future where “AI” isn’t just a tool that a given establishment decided to use much like anything else they use The people making the decisions, investing the money and writing the laws imagine so much more, though. You assume the future of AI is governed by rational people making rational decisions but it isn't, it's governed by Musk and Thiel and sociopaths and grifters and cultists who want to immanentize the eschaton so they can stand at the right hand of God.
    - ryandrake 17d ago
      You can bet that every major company CEO on the planet is creaming his jeans at the thought of AI doing every task (except their own) that they currently pay humans to do. Their ideal end state is that the company is themself, thousands of AIs and thousands of robots, zero payroll. Every one of them is dreaming of this.
      - bdangubic 16d ago
        Hard agree. But even in this case though, the company behind assumes liability for "its actions", no?
      - k310 16d ago
        From what I've seen of CEO's, they can be the first ones replaced. They're inhuman(e). They hallucinate, and have devoured volumes of Harvard Business Review.

bloppe 16d ago

But what's the point of holding something accountable here? Creating an incentive for them to take your needs seriously? Why does an incentive matter if you already know that one has a superior expected outcome?