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A lot of techies have lived in China and seen how that country has stronger social harmony than the West and is gradually outpacing it, so mass surveillance cle
by TFNA 24d ago
A lot of techies have lived in China and seen how that country has stronger social harmony than the West and is gradually outpacing it, so mass surveillance clearly isn't an obstacle to the general prosperity.
The problem with mass surveillance rollouts in the West is that they are incomplete: the cameras might go up, but not all infractions caught on camera are actually punished. Meanwhile, in China vandals and other disruptive people do get traced back to where they live and apprehended. I think that if such a vigorous policy were applied in other countries, even on a contrarian forum like this one you wouldn't see much opposition to the cameras.
- iamnothere 24d agoYes, the problems are trust and consistency of enforcement. We have neither in the US and I’m not sure how we would ever get there. Many East Asian countries try to write their laws so that niche cases are covered, and enforcement is tighter. In the West we leave endless loopholes in overbroad laws so that (a) everyone is probably breaking some law frequently and (b) the only people who frequently face consequences are politically disfavored groups, “troublemakers”, or those who harm elites. It’s all very Soviet.
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- djeastm 24d ago> even on a contrarian forum like this one you wouldn't see much opposition to the cameras. You think the commenters on HN would sacrifice liberty in return for safety? I get the opposite impression.
- TFNA 24d agoI get that impression, because opposition to surveillance cameras here is very often accompanied by a statement along the lines of "and society doesn't even see any benefit from it".
- ryandvm 24d agoWhat the actual fuck is this opinion? We wouldn't be so up in arms if the grip were tighter?
- akomtu 24d agoChina is still under a communist regime, and we know how it makes society harmonious: by chopping everyone's fingers to equal length.
- bwv848 24d ago> has stronger social harmony Man unless you have different definition of so called social harmony, you can't be more wrong. Literally everyone is talking about 社会戾气 on Chinese social media and there are a big bunch of people seeking extreme means. > Meanwhile, in China vandals and other disruptive people do get traced back to where they live and apprehended. Nope. You think Chinese police force have unlimited amount manpower? We say the first lesson young people learn upon entering society is calling the police, 报警是社会第一课.