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Opt out doesn’t guarantee they can’t train on “your” data. Legally the reasoning tokens are ambiguous in terms of ownership. Explained this here https://fortune

Opt out doesn’t guarantee they can’t train on “your” data. Legally the reasoning tokens are ambiguous in terms of ownership. Explained this here https://fortune.com/2026/08/26/alex-karp-was-right-you-dont-own-your-data/ https://fortune.com/2026/08/26/alex-karp-was-right-you-dont-...

zamadatix 20d ago
Edit: the parent comment now seems to better reflect the below. That article is only saying when you opt out there may be a loophole in the terms to allow OpenAI to train on the intermittent reasoning data anyways. If you don't opt out there is no ambiguity, all of the data can clearly be trained on. So you have to opt out, it's just argued it's not clear from the terms that will also opt out of training on reasoning data or not.
- kzrdude 20d ago
  We come back to the rule: "The cloud is just someone else's computer". The way for people or companies or universities to control their data and information is to keep it on their own computers.
  - zamadatix 20d ago
    Solid legal agreements work fine for companies or universities, you just don't usually get that with standard user ToSes.
    - kzrdude 19d ago
      Depends on how much risk they are willing to accept. What is strange here is that it's clear that OpenAI is both a service provider and a competitor to mathematicians. It almost reminds me of Amazon which both hosts external merchants and competes with them, sometimes copying their stuff. Similar but not the same.
fatherzine 20d ago
how is this different than translating user prompts to a different language (eg English => Dutch), retaining the translation and using it for training, while telling the user that he's technically covered under ZRP? article locked for me
highfrequency 20d ago
This would be a fairly insane breach of trust and common sense if true; the chain-of-thought / reasoning trace is, from an information perspective, close to a superset of the prompt and model response.
- Ginden 19d ago
  And, of course, you can train a model to start with repeating prompt in chain of thought!

zamadatix 20d ago

Edit: the parent comment now seems to better reflect the below. That article is only saying when you opt out there may be a loophole in the terms to allow OpenAI to train on the intermittent reasoning data anyways. If you don't opt out there is no ambiguity, all of the data can clearly be trained on. So you have to opt out, it's just argued it's not clear from the terms that will also opt out of training on reasoning data or not.

kzrdude 20d ago
We come back to the rule: "The cloud is just someone else's computer". The way for people or companies or universities to control their data and information is to keep it on their own computers.
- zamadatix 20d ago
  Solid legal agreements work fine for companies or universities, you just don't usually get that with standard user ToSes.
  - kzrdude 19d ago
    Depends on how much risk they are willing to accept. What is strange here is that it's clear that OpenAI is both a service provider and a competitor to mathematicians. It almost reminds me of Amazon which both hosts external merchants and competes with them, sometimes copying their stuff. Similar but not the same.

fatherzine 20d ago

how is this different than translating user prompts to a different language (eg English => Dutch), retaining the translation and using it for training, while telling the user that he's technically covered under ZRP? article locked for me

highfrequency 20d ago

This would be a fairly insane breach of trust and common sense if true; the chain-of-thought / reasoning trace is, from an information perspective, close to a superset of the prompt and model response.

Ginden 19d ago
And, of course, you can train a model to start with repeating prompt in chain of thought!