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Including mine. I'm not angry because my flight was cancelled. It's a pain in the arse but what really infuriates me is the "We are terribly sorry" these PR rel

Including mine. I'm not angry because my flight was cancelled. It's a pain in the arse but what really infuriates me is the "We are terribly sorry" these PR releases give. I've been on hold for three hours with British Airlines and it's "we are sorry", no you're not. "We are truly sorry for the ongoing flight disruption" is what infuriates the situation; when words have no meaning behind the phase. Pixelated hold-music I am sure is designed to make you rage further.

ktallett 18d ago
Do you expect them to employ enough staff to answer passenger calls for this rare occasion? That is not good business.
Daviey 18d ago
My wife is currently at Gatwick, supposed to have taken off 2 hours ago, but no update.... The frustrating thing is the complete lack of information. I cannot comprehend how nobody knows what the situation is. I mean, is aircraft on the tarmac yet? Has it left it's previous destination yet? etc. Worst part is, likely no compensation as it isn't the airlines "fault".
- dylan604 18d ago
  Why the use of scare quotes? It's not their fault. The airline arranged for flight crew, had the plane available, yet something outside of their control is preventing them from doing the deed. It's no different to the airline if a sudden bit of weather came along preventing the flight from taking off.
  - donalhunt 18d ago
    I think the frustration comes from airlines not being able to accurately predict what the impact of a delay will be for the schedule for the remainder of the day, following day. They always hope they'll be able to recover some of the schedule with fast turnarounds. On a recent trip (when I encountered issues on every leg — cancellations, delays, missed connections, you name it), it is clear that airlines are incentivised to not communicate delays until it is clear the delay can't be recovered. In one case, at the airline's hub, the airport displays were showing a 2 hour delay and their app showed on-time departure (to the point I had to go and ask which source to trust). Having been a frequent flyer in the past I was able to determine that the delay was likely (but airlines can swap in equipment at hubs and mitigate the delay). Once you do have a delay the ripples are complex to handle. You have some passengers that were meant to connect to other flights. You have some that won't travel at all die to the cancellation. You then have 100+ people who you somehow have to accommodate in the coming days when flight loads are hopefully already 90+%. To be fair to my airline, their app was actually great at offering me a rebooking option the following day when my flight was cancelled. Unfortunately, the option I selected resulted in a non-direct flight with a transfer time that was impossible in reality (shouldn't have been offered in my opinion). I was literally rebooked 5mins after they declared the flight cancelled, skipped the queues back in the departure area (I don't think the local service agents even knew about the app) and drove home to my family for an extra night.
    - ccppurcell 18d ago
      I'm going to guess that they have really good predictions, it's just that it doesn't benefit them at all to reveal those to customers.
      - watwut 18d ago
        Because making prediction and being wrong is way worst then not making one. Plus, imo, they dont know what exactly will happen. There is likely whole bunch of negotiations and replannings going on in background with unsure results.
      - jdlshore 18d ago
        Why would you guess that? “Prediction is hard, especially when it’s about the future.”
  - chairmansteve 18d ago
    The problem is that the airlines don't let you know what is happening. They deliberately keep you in the dark.
    - exe34 18d ago
      If they told you, they might admit more than they actually need to be held responsible for, so no reason to go wasting shareholder value.
  - ljf 18d ago
    In the UK we use quotation marks when we are quoting some verbatim. Scare quotes are an Americanism that is gaining traction her, but normally we use it for quoting speach.
    - technothrasher 18d ago
      Why do you claim it is an Americanism? The term 'scare-quotes' was coined by a British philosopher, Elizabeth Anscombe, who references her use of them in a 1956 essay. This would imply that they were in use in British English at least by the 1950s, with no indication as to whether they were imported from US English.
      - ljf 14d ago
        Because we very rarely use the term here - it might have been coined here but it has only limited traction. Most people will call them quote marks/quotation marks, and realised that they mean the text is a direct quote of something that has been spoken or written.
  - Daviey 18d ago
    Because nobody in this situation is accountable. I agree the airline may not be to blame for the cause, but SOMEONE is... but NATS do not carry the same responsibility. It blows my mind that consumers have lots of protection from the airline, but we have no protection from ATC failures. As it happens, flight just got cancelled.. so airline is responsible for hotel and rebook. Which is also unfair on them.
colechristensen 18d ago
People will be angry regardless of what they say, some if they say they're sorry, some if they don't say they're sorry. Regardless of what they say, some set of people or another is going to come out and be angry about it. What do you hope to accomplish with the phone call? Failures happen, does it make a difference if there's someone in charge feeling a strong emotion about it? Do the call center staff have to feel genuine guilt as if their mediocre job somehow made them personally responsible? Being angry is just as useless as faking being sorry, all they're doing is acknowledging a screwup in an automated message. Give them a break.
- lbriner 18d ago
  I suspect there is a name for thinking that, "if I do something, it will get resolved quicker". Lots of us won't just sit there and wait for someone to come and tell us when it is fixed because we don't trust that other people also want to resolve the problem.
  - blitzar 18d ago
    Sounds like pedestrian push-buttons on crossings - satisfies people but it doesnt actually do anything.
    - watwut 18d ago
      It wont turn green unless you push it here. If you dont push it, you will stand there like an idiot until someone else comes and pushes it.
      - Daviey 17d ago
        https://www.bbc.co.uk/future/article/20150415-the-buttons-that-do-nothing https://www.bbc.co.uk/future/article/20150415-the-buttons-th... There's also placebo buttons in many offices for aircon/heating.
        watwut 17d ago
mcmcmc 18d ago
Why wouldn’t they be sorry? It’s bad for them too
- gspr 18d ago
  Because only people who aren't actually sorry spend their time saying sorry instead of doing the one thing that would actually help people – provide detailed information on what the hell is going on.
ryandrake 18d ago
Whenever a company communicates how "sorry" they are, I can't help but think about South Park[1]. 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9u0EL_u4nvw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9u0EL_u4nvw
SoftTalker 18d ago
What would you prefer they say?
- idle_zealot 18d ago
  Completely utilitarian message. "Your flight #FLIGHTID (src -> dst @ time) is cancelled on account of REASON. For available flights click LINK. For reimbursement click LINK."
  - donalhunt 18d ago
    Even if they tell you the flight is cancelled, they seem hellbent in avoiding telling you why.
basisword 18d ago
What do you want them to say? It's an ATC issue. The airline don't know when it'll be fixed and can't do much until it is.
- exogenousdata 18d ago
  “We’re sorry, but our business model precludes timely responses in times of system stress. As a reminder, our shareholders are our primary concern (by law) and staffing trained humans to handle in customer support during unexpected surges isn’t something that can be supported while also funding the €0.05 per share quarterly dividend paid to British Airways share holders on June 29th of this year. We are not in a rush. If you’d like, try another airline. But they’re all the same. Beep.”
  - Animats 18d ago
    > “We’re sorry, but our business model precludes timely responses in times of system stress." It doesn't have to be that way. Here's Haley Dragoo, former head of the New York Subway's "Twitter Division".[1] She had the sense to insist on a desk in the Rail Control Center, so she could know what was really going on. Down on the working floor, too, not up in the gallery overlooking the control room. She was a few meters from the people directly running the subway. Her point was that the MTA was "good at monologues" but didn't interact well. So she posted on the MTA's Twitter account, several hundred times a day. If someone asked a serious question, she'd answer quickly, with actual info. Not sugar-coating the info, just translating from "subway speak". (The operations people talk about location in terms of distance from a reference point at the start of the line, the signal number plate on each signal, but customers think in terms of stations.) It's very New York to do that. The MTA has dropped Twitter/X, though. Twitter/X wanted to bill them for using the Twitter/X API, and the MTA will not pay others to distribute their info. So now the MTA uses their own web site and app. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/01/nyregion/subway-mta-social-media-alerts.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/01/nyregion/subway-mta-socia...
  - GolfPopper 17d ago
    This is true for so much of the human/corporation interface. I think it is so frustrating because it forces us to confront some major cognitive dissonance: we increasingly live in a world that isn't designed for us. It's designed by the corporations, acting under much different pressures. Sure, you can say humans made these decisions. But at scale, that seems like saying our cells choose what we do.
bcraven 18d ago
"Sorry for any inconvenience" What do you mean, it's ALL inconvenient!

ktallett 18d ago

Do you expect them to employ enough staff to answer passenger calls for this rare occasion? That is not good business.

Daviey 18d ago

My wife is currently at Gatwick, supposed to have taken off 2 hours ago, but no update.... The frustrating thing is the complete lack of information. I cannot comprehend how nobody knows what the situation is. I mean, is aircraft on the tarmac yet? Has it left it's previous destination yet? etc. Worst part is, likely no compensation as it isn't the airlines "fault".

dylan604 18d ago
Why the use of scare quotes? It's not their fault. The airline arranged for flight crew, had the plane available, yet something outside of their control is preventing them from doing the deed. It's no different to the airline if a sudden bit of weather came along preventing the flight from taking off.
- donalhunt 18d ago
  I think the frustration comes from airlines not being able to accurately predict what the impact of a delay will be for the schedule for the remainder of the day, following day. They always hope they'll be able to recover some of the schedule with fast turnarounds. On a recent trip (when I encountered issues on every leg — cancellations, delays, missed connections, you name it), it is clear that airlines are incentivised to not communicate delays until it is clear the delay can't be recovered. In one case, at the airline's hub, the airport displays were showing a 2 hour delay and their app showed on-time departure (to the point I had to go and ask which source to trust). Having been a frequent flyer in the past I was able to determine that the delay was likely (but airlines can swap in equipment at hubs and mitigate the delay). Once you do have a delay the ripples are complex to handle. You have some passengers that were meant to connect to other flights. You have some that won't travel at all die to the cancellation. You then have 100+ people who you somehow have to accommodate in the coming days when flight loads are hopefully already 90+%. To be fair to my airline, their app was actually great at offering me a rebooking option the following day when my flight was cancelled. Unfortunately, the option I selected resulted in a non-direct flight with a transfer time that was impossible in reality (shouldn't have been offered in my opinion). I was literally rebooked 5mins after they declared the flight cancelled, skipped the queues back in the departure area (I don't think the local service agents even knew about the app) and drove home to my family for an extra night.
  - ccppurcell 18d ago
    I'm going to guess that they have really good predictions, it's just that it doesn't benefit them at all to reveal those to customers.
    - watwut 18d ago
      Because making prediction and being wrong is way worst then not making one. Plus, imo, they dont know what exactly will happen. There is likely whole bunch of negotiations and replannings going on in background with unsure results.
    - jdlshore 18d ago
      Why would you guess that? “Prediction is hard, especially when it’s about the future.”
- chairmansteve 18d ago
  The problem is that the airlines don't let you know what is happening. They deliberately keep you in the dark.
  - exe34 18d ago
    If they told you, they might admit more than they actually need to be held responsible for, so no reason to go wasting shareholder value.
- ljf 18d ago
  In the UK we use quotation marks when we are quoting some verbatim. Scare quotes are an Americanism that is gaining traction her, but normally we use it for quoting speach.
  - technothrasher 18d ago
    Why do you claim it is an Americanism? The term 'scare-quotes' was coined by a British philosopher, Elizabeth Anscombe, who references her use of them in a 1956 essay. This would imply that they were in use in British English at least by the 1950s, with no indication as to whether they were imported from US English.
    - ljf 14d ago
      Because we very rarely use the term here - it might have been coined here but it has only limited traction. Most people will call them quote marks/quotation marks, and realised that they mean the text is a direct quote of something that has been spoken or written.
- Daviey 18d ago
  Because nobody in this situation is accountable. I agree the airline may not be to blame for the cause, but SOMEONE is... but NATS do not carry the same responsibility. It blows my mind that consumers have lots of protection from the airline, but we have no protection from ATC failures. As it happens, flight just got cancelled.. so airline is responsible for hotel and rebook. Which is also unfair on them.

colechristensen 18d ago

People will be angry regardless of what they say, some if they say they're sorry, some if they don't say they're sorry. Regardless of what they say, some set of people or another is going to come out and be angry about it. What do you hope to accomplish with the phone call? Failures happen, does it make a difference if there's someone in charge feeling a strong emotion about it? Do the call center staff have to feel genuine guilt as if their mediocre job somehow made them personally responsible? Being angry is just as useless as faking being sorry, all they're doing is acknowledging a screwup in an automated message. Give them a break.

lbriner 18d ago
I suspect there is a name for thinking that, "if I do something, it will get resolved quicker". Lots of us won't just sit there and wait for someone to come and tell us when it is fixed because we don't trust that other people also want to resolve the problem.
- blitzar 18d ago
  Sounds like pedestrian push-buttons on crossings - satisfies people but it doesnt actually do anything.
  - watwut 18d ago
    It wont turn green unless you push it here. If you dont push it, you will stand there like an idiot until someone else comes and pushes it.
    - Daviey 17d ago
      https://www.bbc.co.uk/future/article/20150415-the-buttons-that-do-nothing https://www.bbc.co.uk/future/article/20150415-the-buttons-th... There's also placebo buttons in many offices for aircon/heating.
      - watwut 17d ago

mcmcmc 18d ago

Why wouldn’t they be sorry? It’s bad for them too

gspr 18d ago
Because only people who aren't actually sorry spend their time saying sorry instead of doing the one thing that would actually help people – provide detailed information on what the hell is going on.

ryandrake 18d ago

Whenever a company communicates how "sorry" they are, I can't help but think about South Park[1]. 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9u0EL_u4nvw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9u0EL_u4nvw

SoftTalker 18d ago

What would you prefer they say?

idle_zealot 18d ago
Completely utilitarian message. "Your flight #FLIGHTID (src -> dst @ time) is cancelled on account of REASON. For available flights click LINK. For reimbursement click LINK."
- donalhunt 18d ago
  Even if they tell you the flight is cancelled, they seem hellbent in avoiding telling you why.

basisword 18d ago

What do you want them to say? It's an ATC issue. The airline don't know when it'll be fixed and can't do much until it is.

exogenousdata 18d ago
“We’re sorry, but our business model precludes timely responses in times of system stress. As a reminder, our shareholders are our primary concern (by law) and staffing trained humans to handle in customer support during unexpected surges isn’t something that can be supported while also funding the €0.05 per share quarterly dividend paid to British Airways share holders on June 29th of this year. We are not in a rush. If you’d like, try another airline. But they’re all the same. Beep.”
- Animats 18d ago
  > “We’re sorry, but our business model precludes timely responses in times of system stress." It doesn't have to be that way. Here's Haley Dragoo, former head of the New York Subway's "Twitter Division".[1] She had the sense to insist on a desk in the Rail Control Center, so she could know what was really going on. Down on the working floor, too, not up in the gallery overlooking the control room. She was a few meters from the people directly running the subway. Her point was that the MTA was "good at monologues" but didn't interact well. So she posted on the MTA's Twitter account, several hundred times a day. If someone asked a serious question, she'd answer quickly, with actual info. Not sugar-coating the info, just translating from "subway speak". (The operations people talk about location in terms of distance from a reference point at the start of the line, the signal number plate on each signal, but customers think in terms of stations.) It's very New York to do that. The MTA has dropped Twitter/X, though. Twitter/X wanted to bill them for using the Twitter/X API, and the MTA will not pay others to distribute their info. So now the MTA uses their own web site and app. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/01/nyregion/subway-mta-social-media-alerts.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/01/nyregion/subway-mta-socia...
- GolfPopper 17d ago
  This is true for so much of the human/corporation interface. I think it is so frustrating because it forces us to confront some major cognitive dissonance: we increasingly live in a world that isn't designed for us. It's designed by the corporations, acting under much different pressures. Sure, you can say humans made these decisions. But at scale, that seems like saying our cells choose what we do.

bcraven 18d ago

"Sorry for any inconvenience" What do you mean, it's ALL inconvenient!