4 ms·

In a serious discipline like mathematics, this isn't just an asshole move, but a career-ending level of academic misconduct.

by mti 25d ago

augment_me 25d ago
*In the old discipline of mathematics. We are in new times, where capital and compute decides mathematics, so we don't give a shit anymore
- cindyllm 25d ago
  [dead]
- hardbass 24d ago
  What is your view on the proof of the Four Color Theorem?
  - deleted 23d ago
    [deleted]
  - augment_me 22d ago
    Don't know enough about it to have an opinion, is it related to this somehow?
    - donkeybeer 22d ago
      [dead]
    - hardbass 22d ago
      You implied you weren't a fan of capital and compute driving math. How would you feel about a result that required 1200 hours of time on a powerful mainframe computer?
bawolff 25d ago
I wonder what is required for it to cross the line into criminal blackmail.
- dgellow 25d ago
  From the company that likely committed federal crimes by hacking Hugginface
  - numpad0 24d ago
    One thing that wasn't obvious to me or adults around me when I was younger: most laws define whatever acts a law punishes as individuals commiting to it, not as situations manifesting anyhow. It's not a murder just because someome died hit by a bullet you fired, but you have to have personally decided to kill that person leading to their death[1][2]. OpenAI's LLMs are not humans, and neither is the company. So by this logic, I think there's a chance that nobody committed a crime by hacking Huggingface, and also the chance that a lot of military and police organizational orders become illegal if OAI's doings would be illegal. IANAL and all I have is a bucket of popcorns, though. 1: not a meaningful defense in a real trial, also gross negligence exists 2: this also explains insanity defense; if you were so out of your mind that you could not have held such a thought, it is considered out of scope for justice systems
    - bawolff 24d ago
      > OpenAI's LLMs are not humans Neither are guns. Which is why we punish the person shooting the gun and not the gun. Industrial equipment, which is how i would classify LLMs, hurting people is nothing new. The relevant questions are: - did someone intend it to happen? - was someone negligent in taking reasonable steps to prevent something foreseeable? The justice system doesn't punish people for legitimate accidents. e.g. if you are shooting at a shooting range, take all reasonable precautions, but someone was hiding behind the target, you are probably not guilty even if you shoot the guy. As far as openAI goes, the logic is the same. The question is, was it intentional, was it unintentional but reasonable precautions weren't taken or was it truly an accident?
fn-mote 24d ago
> a career-ending level of academic misconduct There is no such thing anymore. Falsified data and published? Absolutely no problem. Keep your tenure. It’s even hard to lose your position as president of a university due to egregious misconduct.

In a serious discipline like mathematics, this isn't just an asshole move, but a career-ending level of academic misconduct.

by mti 25d ago

In a serious discipline like mathematics, this isn't just an asshole move, but a career-ending level of academic misconduct.

augment_me 25d ago

*In the old discipline of mathematics. We are in new times, where capital and compute decides mathematics, so we don't give a shit anymore

cindyllm 25d ago
[dead]
hardbass 24d ago
What is your view on the proof of the Four Color Theorem?
- deleted 23d ago
  [deleted]
- augment_me 22d ago
  Don't know enough about it to have an opinion, is it related to this somehow?
  - donkeybeer 22d ago
    [dead]
  - hardbass 22d ago
    You implied you weren't a fan of capital and compute driving math. How would you feel about a result that required 1200 hours of time on a powerful mainframe computer?

bawolff 25d ago

I wonder what is required for it to cross the line into criminal blackmail.

dgellow 25d ago
From the company that likely committed federal crimes by hacking Hugginface
- numpad0 24d ago
  One thing that wasn't obvious to me or adults around me when I was younger: most laws define whatever acts a law punishes as individuals commiting to it, not as situations manifesting anyhow. It's not a murder just because someome died hit by a bullet you fired, but you have to have personally decided to kill that person leading to their death[1][2]. OpenAI's LLMs are not humans, and neither is the company. So by this logic, I think there's a chance that nobody committed a crime by hacking Huggingface, and also the chance that a lot of military and police organizational orders become illegal if OAI's doings would be illegal. IANAL and all I have is a bucket of popcorns, though. 1: not a meaningful defense in a real trial, also gross negligence exists 2: this also explains insanity defense; if you were so out of your mind that you could not have held such a thought, it is considered out of scope for justice systems
  - bawolff 24d ago
    > OpenAI's LLMs are not humans Neither are guns. Which is why we punish the person shooting the gun and not the gun. Industrial equipment, which is how i would classify LLMs, hurting people is nothing new. The relevant questions are: - did someone intend it to happen? - was someone negligent in taking reasonable steps to prevent something foreseeable? The justice system doesn't punish people for legitimate accidents. e.g. if you are shooting at a shooting range, take all reasonable precautions, but someone was hiding behind the target, you are probably not guilty even if you shoot the guy. As far as openAI goes, the logic is the same. The question is, was it intentional, was it unintentional but reasonable precautions weren't taken or was it truly an accident?

fn-mote 24d ago

> a career-ending level of academic misconduct There is no such thing anymore. Falsified data and published? Absolutely no problem. Keep your tenure. It’s even hard to lose your position as president of a university due to egregious misconduct.