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I don't mean to be dismissive, but isn't this old news? Hasn't it been the case that _all_ "smart" TVs have been spying on users since they came out? I've perso

I don't mean to be dismissive, but isn't this old news? Hasn't it been the case that _all_ "smart" TVs have been spying on users since they came out? I've personally operated as if they are: my TV is not connected to the internet. At least, not through my internet connection. It's not on my wifi, nor is it connected to my LAN.

Cort3z 24d ago
This is straight up dystopian level spying. Streaming microphone inputs all the time, knowing everything that is displayed on the screens via object recognition and stuff. Scraping your local network. If I’m not mistaken there is the possibility for the tv to connect to public/open networks to send this stuff without you knowing. Magically syncing with your phone. It’s truly terrible, and a class action is all but guaranteed to come. Gamers nexus has a great video on this.
- ranger_danger 24d ago
  This is a known feature that is not hidden which is not automatically turned on by default. You must set your TV to a different standby mode and enable LG voice control. When you do this, it very plainly tells you that it can listen with the screen off so you can control the TV with voice. Failure of User Awareness, not some nefarious spyware.
  - mitxela 23d ago
    No, you're not up to date with the latest news. There's a separate feature that records you all the time, transcribes it to text and uses it to select ads for you
    - ranger_danger 23d ago
      Do you have a source for this claim?
      - mitxela 22d ago
        The gamer's nexus investigation
        ranger_danger 22d ago
        That is exactly what I am claiming is false. Later LG even came out with their own statement saying basically the same thing I did. What is this separate feature you claim that is not the same as the one I refer to?
- coldpie 23d ago
  > If I’m not mistaken there is the possibility for the tv to connect to public/open networks to send this stuff without you knowing. No, there is no evidence that any TV has ever done this. Please stop spreading this rumor.
JohnTHaller 24d ago
We knew they were reporting back our watching habits of the built-in stuff. Then we learned they were doing video capture on HDMI ports to report back on what we watched on external sources (Xbox, Apple TV, etc). Then we learned that they did botnet-like stuff in the background even when they were switched off. NOW we're learning that they're spying with their internal microphone when switched off.
CMay 24d ago
A real problem is that you might not even need to give these internet access. If your neighbor gives their TV internet access and it can establish a mesh connection then it might be able to exfiltrate data that way. I don't know of any TVs that do this, but it's always been a possibility. Another possibility is even if you don't give it access to your wifi, if you eventually give your TV away or sell it, the new user could connect it to wifi and if it has any persistent storage then it could upload all of its stored data about you at that point. Companies that do this need to end their entire brand, because they're just helping the CCP.
- coldpie 23d ago
  > A real problem is that you might not even need to give these internet access. If your neighbor gives their TV internet access and it can establish a mesh connection then it might be able to exfiltrate data that way. No TV has ever been shown to do this. Please stop spreading this rumor.
  - CMay 23d ago
    I didn't say a TV had been, if you read. I will absolutely not stop spreading the possibility, because it is in fact a possibility. This is more true now than it has ever been, because even if a manufacturer doesn't do this we're now in a world where AI could potentially exploit devices and make hops like this. The risk is higher in areas with higher population density though, like multi-story apartments. We know that device connection sharing is a thing that has occurred and it's not unreasonable to see the risk of it coming to TVs. Why, do you work for a TV company?
    - coldpie 23d ago
      Partly it annoys me because the answer to the question "how do I protect myself?" is simply "don't connect it to wifi" and that's it. These rumors make it all complicated to answer when it's really not that deep. This isn't deep NSA spy craft, it's shitty software uploading logs and half-assed data collection to the Internet. That's it. But if I'm honest, it's mostly because I'm disappointed that they don't do this. It'd be a fascinating story. Imagine the braindead balls it'd take to make a feature that insanely abusive, and how good the outrage out it would be to read. That'd be a killer story for someone to break, it'd be like the xz backdoor or the Snowden NSA leaks. Instead we get these dumb "Mew under a truck"-quality grade school rumors in comments sections and it's just so stupid and disappointing. (And honestly-honestly a tiny part of it is trying to goad one of these commenters into actually doing the work to find someone who really is doing this, so I can read that story.)

Cort3z 24d ago

This is straight up dystopian level spying. Streaming microphone inputs all the time, knowing everything that is displayed on the screens via object recognition and stuff. Scraping your local network. If I’m not mistaken there is the possibility for the tv to connect to public/open networks to send this stuff without you knowing. Magically syncing with your phone. It’s truly terrible, and a class action is all but guaranteed to come. Gamers nexus has a great video on this.

ranger_danger 24d ago
This is a known feature that is not hidden which is not automatically turned on by default. You must set your TV to a different standby mode and enable LG voice control. When you do this, it very plainly tells you that it can listen with the screen off so you can control the TV with voice. Failure of User Awareness, not some nefarious spyware.
- mitxela 23d ago
  No, you're not up to date with the latest news. There's a separate feature that records you all the time, transcribes it to text and uses it to select ads for you
  - ranger_danger 23d ago
    Do you have a source for this claim?
    - mitxela 22d ago
      The gamer's nexus investigation
      - ranger_danger 22d ago
        That is exactly what I am claiming is false. Later LG even came out with their own statement saying basically the same thing I did. What is this separate feature you claim that is not the same as the one I refer to?
coldpie 23d ago
> If I’m not mistaken there is the possibility for the tv to connect to public/open networks to send this stuff without you knowing. No, there is no evidence that any TV has ever done this. Please stop spreading this rumor.

JohnTHaller 24d ago

We knew they were reporting back our watching habits of the built-in stuff. Then we learned they were doing video capture on HDMI ports to report back on what we watched on external sources (Xbox, Apple TV, etc). Then we learned that they did botnet-like stuff in the background even when they were switched off. NOW we're learning that they're spying with their internal microphone when switched off.

CMay 24d ago

A real problem is that you might not even need to give these internet access. If your neighbor gives their TV internet access and it can establish a mesh connection then it might be able to exfiltrate data that way. I don't know of any TVs that do this, but it's always been a possibility. Another possibility is even if you don't give it access to your wifi, if you eventually give your TV away or sell it, the new user could connect it to wifi and if it has any persistent storage then it could upload all of its stored data about you at that point. Companies that do this need to end their entire brand, because they're just helping the CCP.

coldpie 23d ago
> A real problem is that you might not even need to give these internet access. If your neighbor gives their TV internet access and it can establish a mesh connection then it might be able to exfiltrate data that way. No TV has ever been shown to do this. Please stop spreading this rumor.
- CMay 23d ago
  I didn't say a TV had been, if you read. I will absolutely not stop spreading the possibility, because it is in fact a possibility. This is more true now than it has ever been, because even if a manufacturer doesn't do this we're now in a world where AI could potentially exploit devices and make hops like this. The risk is higher in areas with higher population density though, like multi-story apartments. We know that device connection sharing is a thing that has occurred and it's not unreasonable to see the risk of it coming to TVs. Why, do you work for a TV company?
  - coldpie 23d ago
    Partly it annoys me because the answer to the question "how do I protect myself?" is simply "don't connect it to wifi" and that's it. These rumors make it all complicated to answer when it's really not that deep. This isn't deep NSA spy craft, it's shitty software uploading logs and half-assed data collection to the Internet. That's it. But if I'm honest, it's mostly because I'm disappointed that they don't do this. It'd be a fascinating story. Imagine the braindead balls it'd take to make a feature that insanely abusive, and how good the outrage out it would be to read. That'd be a killer story for someone to break, it'd be like the xz backdoor or the Snowden NSA leaks. Instead we get these dumb "Mew under a truck"-quality grade school rumors in comments sections and it's just so stupid and disappointing. (And honestly-honestly a tiny part of it is trying to goad one of these commenters into actually doing the work to find someone who really is doing this, so I can read that story.)