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> to them, the "illegal immigration issue" is just a vehicle to gain power. Nothing more. If what you said made any sense whatsoever, then the parties currentl

> to them, the "illegal immigration issue" is just a vehicle to gain power. Nothing more. If what you said made any sense whatsoever, then the parties currently in charge would have stopped it along time ago. Because if according to you that makes the far-right parties grow stronger, then why would anyone in their right mind not do anything about it? Why wait for these parties to use this issue to fuel their growth?

Timon3 26d ago
The CDU has been trying to adopt more AfD positions and talking points, in the hopes of getting their votes. Meanwhile this keeps only strengthening the AfD, but the CDU would rather see the fascists in power than govern with anyone left of center.
- pbasista 26d ago
  > CDU has been trying to adopt more AfD positions > this keeps only strengthening the AfD I am unfamiliar with the details of German politics but if what you say is true, I am not surprised at all. I do not think that one can "win" against those parties by using their methods or adopting their positions. Because they are genuine at it. While the others would only fake it. If the voters have a choice between a fake populist and a genuine populist, they would, in my opinion, naturally pick the genuine one. I think that one of the reasons is that the "fakeness" is not very appealing to anyone. So they prefer the "real deal".
  - Timon3 26d ago
    The research I've seen points to a different, but closely related causal chain - when the mainstream party adopts positions by the extreme party, some view it as a confirmation that the extreme party was right on this point, and might be right on others.
pbasista 26d ago
> that makes the far-right parties grow stronger That issue is just one of many that they use and abuse to gain popularity. They have also spread lies about vaccines. They promote antisemitism, xenophobia, hate against the LGBTI people, historical revisionism (e.g. they say nice things about the Nazis), etc. They are even fighting against the wind turbines (or, as Donald Trump calls them, the "wind mills"). You cannot satisfy their demands by "fixing" one issue. Because they will always find another. The more absurd one, the better, it seems. I think that the reason is that those absurd causes are supported by people who are easy to manipulate. They know it. And they abuse it. > Why wait for these parties to use this issue to fuel their growth? No one wants to wait. But at the same time, I have not yet seen a successful recipe on how to root out their populist practices and render them ineffective against the general population at large. Because, unfortunately, there is still a considerable number of people who are falling for it. And it seems to me that no politician or party so far has been able to figure out a reliable way to protect those who are most vulnerable from being manipulated this way.
- stevezsa8 26d ago
  I've seen the interviews at the AfD rallies. "They're not afraid to say climate change is fake". "They're going to kick out the refugees". "They're going to fix the retirement pensions". "Back to the good old days". I'm now reading that the AfD are saying in the press that "democracy demands the other parties work with them". I mean if someone got into power on the promise of taking away the right for women to vote, I guess all the adults in the room have to bow down to 'democracy'. I personally think the general population is some small percentage of saintly people. And a small percentage of evil people. And a huge mass in the middle. That mass in the middle can be swayed to vote for almost anything.

Timon3 26d ago

The CDU has been trying to adopt more AfD positions and talking points, in the hopes of getting their votes. Meanwhile this keeps only strengthening the AfD, but the CDU would rather see the fascists in power than govern with anyone left of center.

pbasista 26d ago
> CDU has been trying to adopt more AfD positions > this keeps only strengthening the AfD I am unfamiliar with the details of German politics but if what you say is true, I am not surprised at all. I do not think that one can "win" against those parties by using their methods or adopting their positions. Because they are genuine at it. While the others would only fake it. If the voters have a choice between a fake populist and a genuine populist, they would, in my opinion, naturally pick the genuine one. I think that one of the reasons is that the "fakeness" is not very appealing to anyone. So they prefer the "real deal".
- Timon3 26d ago
  The research I've seen points to a different, but closely related causal chain - when the mainstream party adopts positions by the extreme party, some view it as a confirmation that the extreme party was right on this point, and might be right on others.

pbasista 26d ago

> that makes the far-right parties grow stronger That issue is just one of many that they use and abuse to gain popularity. They have also spread lies about vaccines. They promote antisemitism, xenophobia, hate against the LGBTI people, historical revisionism (e.g. they say nice things about the Nazis), etc. They are even fighting against the wind turbines (or, as Donald Trump calls them, the "wind mills"). You cannot satisfy their demands by "fixing" one issue. Because they will always find another. The more absurd one, the better, it seems. I think that the reason is that those absurd causes are supported by people who are easy to manipulate. They know it. And they abuse it. > Why wait for these parties to use this issue to fuel their growth? No one wants to wait. But at the same time, I have not yet seen a successful recipe on how to root out their populist practices and render them ineffective against the general population at large. Because, unfortunately, there is still a considerable number of people who are falling for it. And it seems to me that no politician or party so far has been able to figure out a reliable way to protect those who are most vulnerable from being manipulated this way.

stevezsa8 26d ago
I've seen the interviews at the AfD rallies. "They're not afraid to say climate change is fake". "They're going to kick out the refugees". "They're going to fix the retirement pensions". "Back to the good old days". I'm now reading that the AfD are saying in the press that "democracy demands the other parties work with them". I mean if someone got into power on the promise of taking away the right for women to vote, I guess all the adults in the room have to bow down to 'democracy'. I personally think the general population is some small percentage of saintly people. And a small percentage of evil people. And a huge mass in the middle. That mass in the middle can be swayed to vote for almost anything.