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The statement "if gravity is quantum, this was an interaction with a graviton" is true even if it ultimately turns out that gravity is not quantum. The statemen

The statement "if gravity is quantum, this was an interaction with a graviton" is true even if it ultimately turns out that gravity is not quantum. The statement is about the consequences of a premise, and is not falsified if that premise is false. The only way this statement could be false would be to have quantum gravity but no particle that mediates this interaction - which doesn't seem plausible almost by definition.

gps372 18d ago
>> The only way this statement could be false That's quite an exotic claim! If Sound and Temperature can emerge without a sound particle or temperature particle, why is it not plausible for gravity to exists without graviton? Though, I get it that mainstream view from physicists is Graviton is the most 'likely' cause, if the gravity is proven to be quantized. But even they would have the humility to accept that this is a theory yet to be proven and observed!
- simiones 18d ago
  Their statement has two possibilities: A: If gravity is quantum, then (B) there must be some particle-like think that we call a graviton that mediates the interactions, and then seeing a rubidium atom fall must have been an interaction with this particle. not A: If gravity is not quantum, then they are making no claims about a graviton. If you think gravity is not quantum, then you go to the "not A" branch, and they make no claims about that branch - so there is no contradiction with their IF.
  - gps372 17d ago
    Maybe I should have been clearer! There is also a possibility for Gravity to be quantum without gravitons https://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0204062 https://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0204062 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_gravity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_gravity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropic_gravity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropic_gravity However, for me to claim that quantum Gravity is only emergent without a particle like graviton's mediation, I would need to present evidence. Just like this claim - quantum gravity is only possible from gravitons.
    - simiones 17d ago
      Ohh, yes, I had not at all understood that this was what you were referring to, especially as I had already suggested this is a real, though to my mind implausible, possibility. Now, as to how plausible this is, we'll actually get into semantics. To me, saying that "gravity is quantum" would mean that it is a real force/interaction, and that this force obeys the Heisenberg uncertainty principle. So, I wouldn't say "gravity is quantum" if it turns out that the Entropic gravity theory is true, as in that theory gravity is only an apparent interaction. However, I admit that this may only be my perception of what these terms mean together, and that others may use "gravity is quantum" to refer to any theory that explains the macroscopic effects we call gravity in a way that matches quantum theories.
      - gps372 16d ago
        So, basically Gravity is quantum if Gravity is fundamental (not emergent)? If I am understanding your counterpoint correctly, then this argument can only be concluded satisfactorily if either Graviton is observed (proving is existence) or something more fundamental and deeper is observed (proving that quantum gravity can emerge without graviton).

gps372 18d ago

>> The only way this statement could be false That's quite an exotic claim! If Sound and Temperature can emerge without a sound particle or temperature particle, why is it not plausible for gravity to exists without graviton? Though, I get it that mainstream view from physicists is Graviton is the most 'likely' cause, if the gravity is proven to be quantized. But even they would have the humility to accept that this is a theory yet to be proven and observed!

simiones 18d ago
Their statement has two possibilities: A: If gravity is quantum, then (B) there must be some particle-like think that we call a graviton that mediates the interactions, and then seeing a rubidium atom fall must have been an interaction with this particle. not A: If gravity is not quantum, then they are making no claims about a graviton. If you think gravity is not quantum, then you go to the "not A" branch, and they make no claims about that branch - so there is no contradiction with their IF.
- gps372 17d ago
  Maybe I should have been clearer! There is also a possibility for Gravity to be quantum without gravitons https://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0204062 https://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0204062 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_gravity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_gravity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropic_gravity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropic_gravity However, for me to claim that quantum Gravity is only emergent without a particle like graviton's mediation, I would need to present evidence. Just like this claim - quantum gravity is only possible from gravitons.
  - simiones 17d ago
    Ohh, yes, I had not at all understood that this was what you were referring to, especially as I had already suggested this is a real, though to my mind implausible, possibility. Now, as to how plausible this is, we'll actually get into semantics. To me, saying that "gravity is quantum" would mean that it is a real force/interaction, and that this force obeys the Heisenberg uncertainty principle. So, I wouldn't say "gravity is quantum" if it turns out that the Entropic gravity theory is true, as in that theory gravity is only an apparent interaction. However, I admit that this may only be my perception of what these terms mean together, and that others may use "gravity is quantum" to refer to any theory that explains the macroscopic effects we call gravity in a way that matches quantum theories.
    - gps372 16d ago
      So, basically Gravity is quantum if Gravity is fundamental (not emergent)? If I am understanding your counterpoint correctly, then this argument can only be concluded satisfactorily if either Graviton is observed (proving is existence) or something more fundamental and deeper is observed (proving that quantum gravity can emerge without graviton).