In both cases you're undercounting apples investment just to make a really dense point on HN. 1) khtml was a really minimal renderer in KDE before apple pumped

In both cases you're undercounting apples investment just to make a really dense point on HN. 1) khtml was a really minimal renderer in KDE before apple pumped tens of millions into turning it into the first really modern web2.0 browser, you really can not underestimate the amount of money jobs was willing to pump to make that thing what it became by the time the iphone launched. 2) llvm was essentially apple's bet on a grad student hire and him and his lab's academic project. I knew and worked with several of those former uiuc guys. llvm and clang as we know them today were heavily built at apple. Also, you are totally (and purposefully probably) misquoting me. I said __clang__ and the __llvm arm64 backend__ were done by apple, and they were almost entirely from scratch from the start at Apple.