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Doesn't "provide better context" just push the problem one turtle away? How could I communicate to the website that the item for which I'm shopping is for a fr

by fatbird 14y ago

Doesn't "provide better context" just push the problem one turtle away? How could I communicate to the website that the item for which I'm shopping is for a friend, not for me, and that I don't want the current actions to figure into future adaptive behaviour? Perhaps a checkbox? But now we're adding interface, which we were trying to eliminate in the first place. I suggest that this is an intractable problem just because there's a fundamental tension between ease and flexibility. 'Optimize for the common case' always seems like a good idea (and the AI suggestion is just 'allow past history to determine the common case'), but we all have different common cases, and this heuristic helps us not all when we don't want to execute the common case, which is the hardest part of the design problem anyway. I agree with the idea, generally, that we need to be smarter about how things work for people. I think "No UI" is like "No SQL": An appropriate solution in a certain set of cases, but nothing like a general solution for all.

jbrennan 14y ago
>Doesn't "provide better context" just push the problem one turtle away? How could I communicate to the website that the item for which I'm shopping is for a friend, not for me, and that I don't want the current actions to figure into future adaptive behaviour? That's part of the implementation, again, I think. It would be silly for the implementation to treat just once instance of a behaviour so seriously. If the user buys it once, but then never shows any interest in such products again, then they should slowly be ranked less and less relevant. If the user instead continued to purchase or look at baby items, then the system could have more certainty of desire in them. Again, it's not just the products themselves, but the behaviour surrounding them. Temporal context is important, too. I agree fully that just heaping on more interface for "special cases" is a bad idea. We just need to be smarter about...how our software is smart.
camtarn 14y ago
The funny thing is, in Amazon's case, there are multiple ways to do that - tell the website you're buying something as a gift during checkout, or when you get bad recommendations, click 'fix this recommendation'. Of course, even though I work there * , I never remember to do the former, and usually can't be bothered to do the latter ... and I reckon the majority of people don't know that either option exists (in a couple of cases I've even had people ask me why the option didn't exist!) It's a pretty good case study: even though the UI is there, front and center (the 'fix this' link is usually right underneath recommendations), it doesn't get used because most users would rather do 'Step 1: get good recommendations' rather than 'Step 1: get mixed-quality recommendations; Step 2: take action to improve recommendations; Step 3: get good recommendations'. * And, of course (standard disclaimer) I don't speak for or represent Amazon in any way...
jasonlotito 14y ago
> But now we're adding interface, which we were trying to eliminate in the first place. camtarn already explains how you make this part of the natural interface. I'm going to address the apparent confusion you have in assuming that in removing the interface, you do not need to eliminate it. For example, in the article, the discussion about approaching the car should open the door does not mean that you remove the interface of lock and key. > An appropriate solution in a certain set of cases, but nothing like a general solution for all. And the article isn't advocating for the removal of all UIs. It even goes on to advocate certain UIs. Don't just read the headline. Take a few minutes and consider what's being said.

by fatbird 14y ago

jbrennan 14y ago

>Doesn't "provide better context" just push the problem one turtle away? How could I communicate to the website that the item for which I'm shopping is for a friend, not for me, and that I don't want the current actions to figure into future adaptive behaviour? That's part of the implementation, again, I think. It would be silly for the implementation to treat just once instance of a behaviour so seriously. If the user buys it once, but then never shows any interest in such products again, then they should slowly be ranked less and less relevant. If the user instead continued to purchase or look at baby items, then the system could have more certainty of desire in them. Again, it's not just the products themselves, but the behaviour surrounding them. Temporal context is important, too. I agree fully that just heaping on more interface for "special cases" is a bad idea. We just need to be smarter about...how our software is smart.

camtarn 14y ago

The funny thing is, in Amazon's case, there are multiple ways to do that - tell the website you're buying something as a gift during checkout, or when you get bad recommendations, click 'fix this recommendation'. Of course, even though I work there * , I never remember to do the former, and usually can't be bothered to do the latter ... and I reckon the majority of people don't know that either option exists (in a couple of cases I've even had people ask me why the option didn't exist!) It's a pretty good case study: even though the UI is there, front and center (the 'fix this' link is usually right underneath recommendations), it doesn't get used because most users would rather do 'Step 1: get good recommendations' rather than 'Step 1: get mixed-quality recommendations; Step 2: take action to improve recommendations; Step 3: get good recommendations'. * And, of course (standard disclaimer) I don't speak for or represent Amazon in any way...

jasonlotito 14y ago

> But now we're adding interface, which we were trying to eliminate in the first place. camtarn already explains how you make this part of the natural interface. I'm going to address the apparent confusion you have in assuming that in removing the interface, you do not need to eliminate it. For example, in the article, the discussion about approaching the car should open the door does not mean that you remove the interface of lock and key. > An appropriate solution in a certain set of cases, but nothing like a general solution for all. And the article isn't advocating for the removal of all UIs. It even goes on to advocate certain UIs. Don't just read the headline. Take a few minutes and consider what's being said.