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Based on talking with Norwegians, who are quite numerous in my part of the UK, the relative health of their social welfare schemes compared with the UK's mostly

Based on talking with Norwegians, who are quite numerous in my part of the UK, the relative health of their social welfare schemes compared with the UK's mostly due to a much, much higher level of taxation, and a huge cultural difference regarding levels of entitlement. The `professional' unemployed, for example, don't appear to exist in anything like the same numbers in Norway, which removes a significant source of drain. Early retirement, which was fashionable here for a good number of years, is almost unheard of there. The expected level of pensions in Norway is lower too; here, people employed in the public sector routinely expect their pension to be ~50% of their final salary. Taxation on nearly everything makes it much more expensive than it is over here. One notable example was the sports car of a man I know: here, it cost him about £30k; in Norway, the exact same model would have cost him more than three times as much. (That's an apples-to-apples comparison -- I'm not erroneously comparing a Kroner amount to a Sterling amount.) Another thing he was amazed about was how `cheap' cigarettes and alcohol are in the UK; somewhere between one-half and one-third the price they are in Norway. I don't know enough about Germany to explain their success, but my impression is that it's partially a cultural thing, and partially that they still have a strong, manufacturing-based economy.

_delirium 14y ago
This doesn't counter your main point (taxation in Scandinavia is much higher, as part of their social-democratic system), but your specific examples are "sin taxes" and not really intended to raise significant revenue. The Nordic countries all have very high alcohol taxes due to problems with alcoholism, and all of them except Denmark restrict alcohol sales to the state liquor monopoly, which has high prices, and purposely restricted hours to attempt to discourage binge drinking (e.g. the Swedish stores close at 3pm on Fridays, and don't open at all on weekends). There was a strong prohibition movement in the early 20th century, around the same time that the U.S. had one, but in the Nordic countries the tax/monopoly model narrowly won out over outright prohibition. Automobile and cigarette taxes are also there primarily to discourage greater use of those products. The main taxes intended to actually raise revenue are corporate/personal income taxes, and the VAT.
hnhg 14y ago
I'm from the UK, recently moved to work in Germany. The tax is high by the standards I'm used to but the infrastructure and quality of life is much better and things are much cheaper to buy (food, rent & many household goods). There are major cultural differences though. Personal debt is frowned up - good luck in trying to use a credit card there and they don't have the culture of borrowing to buy (invest in) real estate in the same way. There is also a subtle sense that sharing resources and participating to make them as good as possible is the logical approach to things, and it feels 'socialist' in a modern sense. I'm struggling to describe it but there is definitely something there when they prioritise what, where and how to spend money that is difficult for Brits to get their head around. Also, I know a fair few Swedes and they all comment that they like our country but it's where they come to slum it and have fun. We were described as 'charmingly rough.'

_delirium 14y ago

This doesn't counter your main point (taxation in Scandinavia is much higher, as part of their social-democratic system), but your specific examples are "sin taxes" and not really intended to raise significant revenue. The Nordic countries all have very high alcohol taxes due to problems with alcoholism, and all of them except Denmark restrict alcohol sales to the state liquor monopoly, which has high prices, and purposely restricted hours to attempt to discourage binge drinking (e.g. the Swedish stores close at 3pm on Fridays, and don't open at all on weekends). There was a strong prohibition movement in the early 20th century, around the same time that the U.S. had one, but in the Nordic countries the tax/monopoly model narrowly won out over outright prohibition. Automobile and cigarette taxes are also there primarily to discourage greater use of those products. The main taxes intended to actually raise revenue are corporate/personal income taxes, and the VAT.

hnhg 14y ago

I'm from the UK, recently moved to work in Germany. The tax is high by the standards I'm used to but the infrastructure and quality of life is much better and things are much cheaper to buy (food, rent & many household goods). There are major cultural differences though. Personal debt is frowned up - good luck in trying to use a credit card there and they don't have the culture of borrowing to buy (invest in) real estate in the same way. There is also a subtle sense that sharing resources and participating to make them as good as possible is the logical approach to things, and it feels 'socialist' in a modern sense. I'm struggling to describe it but there is definitely something there when they prioritise what, where and how to spend money that is difficult for Brits to get their head around. Also, I know a fair few Swedes and they all comment that they like our country but it's where they come to slum it and have fun. We were described as 'charmingly rough.'