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Wouldn't you want to own a Roombamower that could automatically mow your lawn after a few times around manually? Or a microwave that could recognize types of fo

by jrajav 14y ago

Wouldn't you want to own a Roombamower that could automatically mow your lawn after a few times around manually? Or a microwave that could recognize types of food with an internal camera, and suggest optimal cooking times based on total times you've done in the past? Maybe you'd rather stick with what you're comfortable with right now, but don't count out great ideas that you might not have thought of yet.

mojuba 14y ago
A microwave that can recognize food is not self-learning and I'm fine with that as far as it's predictable and does its job well. Roomba mower that learns - that's where it gets a bit scary. I wouldn't be comfortable with it because I wouldn't know how and what it learns from me, also how it reacts to changes in the area to be mowed. What if it learns from me to ignore anything (or anyone) that wasn't there during the training phase by running over it?
- jrajav 14y ago
  I should hope it would include very paranoid and redundant safety systems going up from sucking in dust to cutting at high speed with blades, and that it wouldn't learn to override them! That's more about implementation than idea, though.
  - mojuba 14y ago
    Exactly, and see how quickly we switched to algorithm issues that presumably should override the self-learned part.
ProblemFactory 14y ago
The problem with interfaces that learn from user behaviour is that they have to be almost perfect to be usable. Simple, predictable interfaces that the user can understand and control are okay. Self-learning interfaces that do what the user wants are okay. But there is a gap between the two with poor (and even good but imperfect) learning interfaces. A microwave that sets the timer itself would be great - unless it accidentally sets 5% of the meals on fire. Even a small failure rate is very frustrating, as the user cannot accurately predict and control their behaviour. (It might be fine for a microwave - you can see that 20 minutes for a pack of popcorn is wrong, and cancel - but the same issues appear in many other interfaces.)
- VLM 14y ago
  "The problem with interfaces that learn from user behaviour is that they have to be almost perfect to be usable." You listed some practical engineering issues. I can list numerous psychological issues, such as anxiety knowing the failure rate will probably be much worse than mine, the anxiety of not knowing how much extra time I'll have to spend on rework. Uncontrollable failure is stressful. Then there are more attitude level issues with being active "I'm making popcorn" vs passive "The microwave is making popcorn". This is before we get started with complacency "The microwave is really smart, so I'll let my kids use it. Whoops house burned down after 20 minute popcorn setting ... Guess I should feel guilty, or someone should anyway"
Lagged2Death 14y ago
Wouldn't you want to own a Roombamower that could automatically mow your lawn after a few times around manually? If a Roomba vacuum can vacuum the house without training, why would I have to bother training a lawn mower? Shouldn't it work without training? Or a microwave that could recognize types of food with an internal camera, and suggest optimal cooking times based on total times you've done in the past? "I see you're trying to make popcorn! I notice you always somehow always have the same brain fart when it comes to microwave popcorn and burn the ever-loving bejesus out of it, shall I set that up for you again?" Every "self-adapting" interface that I can recall using was a disaster. Then again, the ones I can think of were Windows Start Menu and Microsoft Office features. They were really terrible, though.
- spc476 14y ago
  I doubt the Roombamower would work that well without training. The Roomba is constrained by the walls, so it can just move about randomly without problem (except for stairs---unless it has a sensor to detect its about to tumble down a flight of stairs, you might need to "wall off" the stairs). However, where I currently live, there are no such constraints for a Roombamower. There is no fence between our yard and the neighbor to the south. There is a fence between us and the north neighbor, but only in the backyard. The driveway isn't a good border because we still have a portion of our yard on the "far side" of the driveway (so the Roombamower can safely cross the driveway to keep mowing), but it shouldn't venture out into the street (no curb---and no sidewalk (another rant) to worry about). I'm not terribly concerned about our back property line as that's a nearly impenetrable thicket of native plant life (Florida, if you are curious). In our situation, we would need to somehow inform the Roombamower the extent of our yard. As far as the microwave goes, I can barely operate ours (and here I am, programming computers for a living) and would prefer two dials---power (linear scale is fine) and time (logarithmic would probably work nicely for this).

by jrajav 14y ago

mojuba 14y ago

A microwave that can recognize food is not self-learning and I'm fine with that as far as it's predictable and does its job well. Roomba mower that learns - that's where it gets a bit scary. I wouldn't be comfortable with it because I wouldn't know how and what it learns from me, also how it reacts to changes in the area to be mowed. What if it learns from me to ignore anything (or anyone) that wasn't there during the training phase by running over it?

jrajav 14y ago
I should hope it would include very paranoid and redundant safety systems going up from sucking in dust to cutting at high speed with blades, and that it wouldn't learn to override them! That's more about implementation than idea, though.
- mojuba 14y ago
  Exactly, and see how quickly we switched to algorithm issues that presumably should override the self-learned part.

ProblemFactory 14y ago

The problem with interfaces that learn from user behaviour is that they have to be almost perfect to be usable. Simple, predictable interfaces that the user can understand and control are okay. Self-learning interfaces that do what the user wants are okay. But there is a gap between the two with poor (and even good but imperfect) learning interfaces. A microwave that sets the timer itself would be great - unless it accidentally sets 5% of the meals on fire. Even a small failure rate is very frustrating, as the user cannot accurately predict and control their behaviour. (It might be fine for a microwave - you can see that 20 minutes for a pack of popcorn is wrong, and cancel - but the same issues appear in many other interfaces.)

VLM 14y ago
"The problem with interfaces that learn from user behaviour is that they have to be almost perfect to be usable." You listed some practical engineering issues. I can list numerous psychological issues, such as anxiety knowing the failure rate will probably be much worse than mine, the anxiety of not knowing how much extra time I'll have to spend on rework. Uncontrollable failure is stressful. Then there are more attitude level issues with being active "I'm making popcorn" vs passive "The microwave is making popcorn". This is before we get started with complacency "The microwave is really smart, so I'll let my kids use it. Whoops house burned down after 20 minute popcorn setting ... Guess I should feel guilty, or someone should anyway"

Lagged2Death 14y ago

Wouldn't you want to own a Roombamower that could automatically mow your lawn after a few times around manually? If a Roomba vacuum can vacuum the house without training, why would I have to bother training a lawn mower? Shouldn't it work without training? Or a microwave that could recognize types of food with an internal camera, and suggest optimal cooking times based on total times you've done in the past? "I see you're trying to make popcorn! I notice you always somehow always have the same brain fart when it comes to microwave popcorn and burn the ever-loving bejesus out of it, shall I set that up for you again?" Every "self-adapting" interface that I can recall using was a disaster. Then again, the ones I can think of were Windows Start Menu and Microsoft Office features. They were really terrible, though.

spc476 14y ago
I doubt the Roombamower would work that well without training. The Roomba is constrained by the walls, so it can just move about randomly without problem (except for stairs---unless it has a sensor to detect its about to tumble down a flight of stairs, you might need to "wall off" the stairs). However, where I currently live, there are no such constraints for a Roombamower. There is no fence between our yard and the neighbor to the south. There is a fence between us and the north neighbor, but only in the backyard. The driveway isn't a good border because we still have a portion of our yard on the "far side" of the driveway (so the Roombamower can safely cross the driveway to keep mowing), but it shouldn't venture out into the street (no curb---and no sidewalk (another rant) to worry about). I'm not terribly concerned about our back property line as that's a nearly impenetrable thicket of native plant life (Florida, if you are curious). In our situation, we would need to somehow inform the Roombamower the extent of our yard. As far as the microwave goes, I can barely operate ours (and here I am, programming computers for a living) and would prefer two dials---power (linear scale is fine) and time (logarithmic would probably work nicely for this).