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As someone who lives in The Netherlands, I used to be a proponent of very strict gun control. Here in The Netherlands almost no one has a gun. Gun shops are har
by wsc981 14y ago
As someone who lives in The Netherlands, I used to be a proponent of very strict gun control. Here in The Netherlands almost no one has a gun. Gun shops are hard to find. It seems to work out well for our country.
Then again, I visited Israel 3 times in the past and what's interesting is that lots of people, soldiers in the IDF have guns. You pretty much see guns everywhere. Yet at the same time, you don't have the fear that someone will randomly start shooting people.
Last week I came across the following article, that brings up some interesting points on why Israel has far fewer, if any, of the shooting incidents we see in the United States: http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/119408/why-israel-has-no-newtowns http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/119408/why...
In short, the article brings up the following points:
- "An armed society ... is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. It may be a bit odd to think of Israeli society as polite, but when it comes to guns it is. When everyone has a gun, guns are no longer seen as talismans by weak, frightened, and unstable men seeking a sense of self-validation, but as killing machines that are to be handled with the utmost caution and care."
- "Rather than spend fortunes and ruin lives in a futile attempt to eradicate every last trigger in America, we would do well to follow Israel’s example and educate gun owners about their rights and responsibilities, so as to foster a culture of sensible and mindful gun ownership. Go to any shooting range in Israel, as a soldier or a civilian, and the instructor is likely to talk about responsibility even before he or she begin to cover the basics of shooting."
- "In Israel, still a somewhat socialist country, mental health services are ready available, for free, to anyone. And because so many young Israelis undergo traumatic experiences in the course of their military service, a whole host of nonprofit organizations are on hand to provide counseling and treatment."
Perhaps the 3rd point is the most important one.
- desigooner 14y agoThe thing that is easily overlooked is the mandatory military service in Israel. You have trained citizens who know what a gun can do, what the consequences of such an action would be and how to handle a gun in presence of an armed opponent. I suppose it's a state of mind that can't be achieved by going to the gun range a few times a month.
- brudgers 14y ago"Yet at the same time, you don't have the fear that someone will randomly start shooting people." That the violence is not random does not make it any less violent. That the violence is more directed in a specific vector may contribute to one's feelings of relative safety so long as one is not identified as "the other."
- rooshdi 14y agoSucks being "the other." (Side note: Almost shot with AR at Israeli checkpoint.)
- vacri 14y ago"An armed society is a polite society" is a nonsense aphorism. Look to the trouble spots in Africa for examples.
- mpweiher 14y agoAlso "fear of being shot for saying something someone might not like" != politeness. First amendment, second amendment: go at it!
- gabemart 14y ago>Yet at the same time, you don't have the fear that someone will randomly start shooting people. But if "an armed society is a polite society", you do presumably have to worry about someone shooting you if you're rude to them? I think rudeness is to be discouraged in general, but I'm not sure it's an acceptable justification for gun violence.
- zzzeek 14y agothe 1st point is the most important, because the "armed society" has a chilling effect on freedom of speech and creates new levels of social inequality. The NYT had a great opinion piece detailing these concerns: http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/12/16/the-freedom-of-an-armed-society/ http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/12/16/the-freedom-... also it's not clear why, with your own experience seeing a successful gun-controlled, and then a successful non-gun-controlled, country, you want to pick the second. I'd pick the first - the successful gun control model is much more common than the successful non-gun-control model. Perhaps the approach needs to fit the society ?
- codex 14y agoIsrael actually has rather tight gun control laws, and is tightening them [1]. To me, this is proof that a well regulated militia is compatible with strict personal gun laws. [1] http://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelpeck/2012/12/20/israel-looks-at-tougher-gun-control-laws/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelpeck/2012/12/20/israel-lo...
- ChuckMcM 14y agoThis is a constructive way to frame the discussion: " You pretty much see guns everywhere. Yet at the same time, you don't have the fear that someone will randomly start shooting people." I would much rather live in a community where people owning or carrying guns was no more worrisome than them owning or carrying a pocket knife.
- manicdee 14y agoPerhaps one of the reasons there is so little gun-related violence by Israelis upon Israelis is that they all have a common external enemy to focus their fears on. It's much easier to be friendly with your Nickelback-loving neighbour when you both have someone to focus your anger on. In a more polite society one might have to come to blows or shots to sort out the differences in musical tastes. So who gets to play "Palestine" to the USA's "Israel"? I don't mean to diminish the focus on mental health, but you could have used a better example than Israel as a model of a peaceful gun-toting society.