4 ms·

I agree FUTO is the best right now but it's not open source so they won't.

Groxx 1mo ago
The source is here: https://gitlab.futo.org/keyboard/latinime https://gitlab.futo.org/keyboard/latinime Featured prominently in the "Source Code" container on https://keyboard.futo.tech/ https://keyboard.futo.tech/ AFAIK everything FUTO makes is open source? I haven't seen a counter-example (I have not looked hard though!), and https://futo.tech/about https://futo.tech/about claims the following: >All FUTO-funded projects are expected to be open source or develop a plan to eventually become so. No effort will ever be taken to hide from the people what their computers are doing, to limit how they use them, or to modify their behavior through their software.
- mrob 1mo ago
  From the LICENSE file: https://gitlab.futo.org/keyboard/latinime/-/blob/master/LICENSE.md https://gitlab.futo.org/keyboard/latinime/-/blob/master/LICE... >You may modify the software only for non-commercial purposes such as personal use for research, experiment, and testing for the benefit of public knowledge, personal study, private entertainment, hobby projects, amateur pursuits, or religious observance, all without any anticipated commercial application. Violates clause 3 (Derived Works) and clause 6 (No Discrimination Against Fields of Endeavor) of the Open Source Definition [0]. >You may distribute the software or any part of its source code only if you do so free of charge for non-commercial purposes. Violates clause 1 (Free Redistribution) and clause 6. >Notwithstanding the above, you may not remove or obscure any functionality in the software related to payment to the Licensor in any copy you distribute to others. Violates clause 3. It is a "source available" license, not Open Source. [0] https://opensource.org/osd https://opensource.org/osd
  - Groxx 1mo ago
    Ah, yeah, agreed - "source available" fits that much better. I'm pretty sure that's the same for immich (which is also from FUTO). Thank you for the details! That lays it out nicely for anyone else passing through.
    - grapheneos 1mo ago
      Immich doesn't use the FUTO license because they acquired it and it was already under a copyleft open source license.
  - ravenstine 1mo ago
    Thanks for sharing this! I spoke out of ignorance, having only considered the source code being available but not the licensing. (though I find narrowly defining "open source" to be rather pointless) I haven't tried every open-source Android keyboard, I've been very happy with FUTO Keyboard. Kinda too bad it's not compatible with being shipped with GrapheneOS, but it's also understandable why they'd license it this way.
- jazzyjackson 1mo ago
  Right, they are adhering to a definition of open that includes free as in liberty, so licensing matters. What good is it to read the source if I don’t have rights to modify and redistribute?
- idle_zealot 1mo ago
  https://gitlab.futo.org/keyboard/latinime/-/blob/master/LICENSE.md https://gitlab.futo.org/keyboard/latinime/-/blob/master/LICE... It is not open source. They use a custom source available license. There's no way any Android distribution would include it. A layman's reading is that FUTO could claim license violation on account of the distribution accepting donations (non-commercial use only) and there's a weird clause about not accusing FUTO of patent infringement.
  - mitxela 1mo ago
    Alternatively they could ask FUTO for a commercial license.
    - HybridStatAnim8 1mo ago
      Maybe, but there are better candidates GrapheneOS is more interested in.
      - Redster 1mo ago
        Such as?
        HybridStatAnim8 1mo ago
        Florisboard.
        Redster 1mo ago
        Thanks! I wasn't familiar with it (using FUTO now), but it looks really good.
wolvoleo 1mo ago
[dead]
arximboldi 1mo ago
curious: what are the advantages of futo vs leantype? i use the latter but never looked deep into it, it just seemed the easiest better than aosp thing on f-droid

Groxx 1mo ago

The source is here: https://gitlab.futo.org/keyboard/latinime https://gitlab.futo.org/keyboard/latinime Featured prominently in the "Source Code" container on https://keyboard.futo.tech/ https://keyboard.futo.tech/ AFAIK everything FUTO makes is open source? I haven't seen a counter-example (I have not looked hard though!), and https://futo.tech/about https://futo.tech/about claims the following: >All FUTO-funded projects are expected to be open source or develop a plan to eventually become so. No effort will ever be taken to hide from the people what their computers are doing, to limit how they use them, or to modify their behavior through their software.

mrob 1mo ago
From the LICENSE file: https://gitlab.futo.org/keyboard/latinime/-/blob/master/LICENSE.md https://gitlab.futo.org/keyboard/latinime/-/blob/master/LICE... >You may modify the software only for non-commercial purposes such as personal use for research, experiment, and testing for the benefit of public knowledge, personal study, private entertainment, hobby projects, amateur pursuits, or religious observance, all without any anticipated commercial application. Violates clause 3 (Derived Works) and clause 6 (No Discrimination Against Fields of Endeavor) of the Open Source Definition [0]. >You may distribute the software or any part of its source code only if you do so free of charge for non-commercial purposes. Violates clause 1 (Free Redistribution) and clause 6. >Notwithstanding the above, you may not remove or obscure any functionality in the software related to payment to the Licensor in any copy you distribute to others. Violates clause 3. It is a "source available" license, not Open Source. [0] https://opensource.org/osd https://opensource.org/osd
- Groxx 1mo ago
  Ah, yeah, agreed - "source available" fits that much better. I'm pretty sure that's the same for immich (which is also from FUTO). Thank you for the details! That lays it out nicely for anyone else passing through.
  - grapheneos 1mo ago
    Immich doesn't use the FUTO license because they acquired it and it was already under a copyleft open source license.
- ravenstine 1mo ago
  Thanks for sharing this! I spoke out of ignorance, having only considered the source code being available but not the licensing. (though I find narrowly defining "open source" to be rather pointless) I haven't tried every open-source Android keyboard, I've been very happy with FUTO Keyboard. Kinda too bad it's not compatible with being shipped with GrapheneOS, but it's also understandable why they'd license it this way.
jazzyjackson 1mo ago
Right, they are adhering to a definition of open that includes free as in liberty, so licensing matters. What good is it to read the source if I don’t have rights to modify and redistribute?
idle_zealot 1mo ago
https://gitlab.futo.org/keyboard/latinime/-/blob/master/LICENSE.md https://gitlab.futo.org/keyboard/latinime/-/blob/master/LICE... It is not open source. They use a custom source available license. There's no way any Android distribution would include it. A layman's reading is that FUTO could claim license violation on account of the distribution accepting donations (non-commercial use only) and there's a weird clause about not accusing FUTO of patent infringement.
- mitxela 1mo ago
  Alternatively they could ask FUTO for a commercial license.
  - HybridStatAnim8 1mo ago
    Maybe, but there are better candidates GrapheneOS is more interested in.
    - Redster 1mo ago
      Such as?
      - HybridStatAnim8 1mo ago
        Florisboard.
        Redster 1mo ago
        Thanks! I wasn't familiar with it (using FUTO now), but it looks really good.

wolvoleo 1mo ago

[dead]

arximboldi 1mo ago

curious: what are the advantages of futo vs leantype? i use the latter but never looked deep into it, it just seemed the easiest better than aosp thing on f-droid