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I hope they replace the AOSP keyboard with FUTO keyboard. I'm mostly fine with the other stock apps, but that keyboard was the one thing I absolutely had to en

I hope they replace the AOSP keyboard with FUTO keyboard. I'm mostly fine with the other stock apps, but that keyboard was the one thing I absolutely had to end up replacing due to its jenky behavior.

Cider9986 26d ago
I agree FUTO is the best right now but it's not open source so they won't.
- Groxx 26d ago
  The source is here: https://gitlab.futo.org/keyboard/latinime https://gitlab.futo.org/keyboard/latinime Featured prominently in the "Source Code" container on https://keyboard.futo.tech/ https://keyboard.futo.tech/ AFAIK everything FUTO makes is open source? I haven't seen a counter-example (I have not looked hard though!), and https://futo.tech/about https://futo.tech/about claims the following: >All FUTO-funded projects are expected to be open source or develop a plan to eventually become so. No effort will ever be taken to hide from the people what their computers are doing, to limit how they use them, or to modify their behavior through their software.
  - mrob 26d ago
    From the LICENSE file: https://gitlab.futo.org/keyboard/latinime/-/blob/master/LICENSE.md https://gitlab.futo.org/keyboard/latinime/-/blob/master/LICE... >You may modify the software only for non-commercial purposes such as personal use for research, experiment, and testing for the benefit of public knowledge, personal study, private entertainment, hobby projects, amateur pursuits, or religious observance, all without any anticipated commercial application. Violates clause 3 (Derived Works) and clause 6 (No Discrimination Against Fields of Endeavor) of the Open Source Definition [0]. >You may distribute the software or any part of its source code only if you do so free of charge for non-commercial purposes. Violates clause 1 (Free Redistribution) and clause 6. >Notwithstanding the above, you may not remove or obscure any functionality in the software related to payment to the Licensor in any copy you distribute to others. Violates clause 3. It is a "source available" license, not Open Source. [0] https://opensource.org/osd https://opensource.org/osd
    - Groxx 26d ago
      Ah, yeah, agreed - "source available" fits that much better. I'm pretty sure that's the same for immich (which is also from FUTO). Thank you for the details! That lays it out nicely for anyone else passing through.
      - grapheneos 26d ago
        Immich doesn't use the FUTO license because they acquired it and it was already under a copyleft open source license.
    - ravenstine 25d ago
      Thanks for sharing this! I spoke out of ignorance, having only considered the source code being available but not the licensing. (though I find narrowly defining "open source" to be rather pointless) I haven't tried every open-source Android keyboard, I've been very happy with FUTO Keyboard. Kinda too bad it's not compatible with being shipped with GrapheneOS, but it's also understandable why they'd license it this way.
  - jazzyjackson 26d ago
    Right, they are adhering to a definition of open that includes free as in liberty, so licensing matters. What good is it to read the source if I don’t have rights to modify and redistribute?
  - idle_zealot 26d ago
    https://gitlab.futo.org/keyboard/latinime/-/blob/master/LICENSE.md https://gitlab.futo.org/keyboard/latinime/-/blob/master/LICE... It is not open source. They use a custom source available license. There's no way any Android distribution would include it. A layman's reading is that FUTO could claim license violation on account of the distribution accepting donations (non-commercial use only) and there's a weird clause about not accusing FUTO of patent infringement.
    - mitxela 26d ago
      Alternatively they could ask FUTO for a commercial license.
      - HybridStatAnim8 26d ago
        Maybe, but there are better candidates GrapheneOS is more interested in.
        Redster 25d ago
        Such as?
        HybridStatAnim8 25d ago
        Florisboard.
        Redster 25d ago
        Thanks! I wasn't familiar with it (using FUTO now), but it looks really good.
- wolvoleo 26d ago
  [dead]
- arximboldi 26d ago
  curious: what are the advantages of futo vs leantype? i use the latter but never looked deep into it, it just seemed the easiest better than aosp thing on f-droid
dsr_ 26d ago
Heliboard is good, customizable, and actually open source - GPL3.
- sublinear 26d ago
  I like Heliboard a lot, but its autocorrect gets stuck in the mud all the time. It completely falls apart and starts injecting nonsense phrases made up of nonsense misspelled words moment you miss a space ('v' or 'b') or type a really long word it doesn't know. It also stubbornly incorrects other things like 'a' into "and" if it thinks it knows a phrase fragment. It's always wrong. It just happened to me now twice. Above, "or type a" became "or type and". Also, "it's" became "IRS". Heliboard would be perfect if it stuck to word-only spellcheck and never split words. Just now again, it tried correcting "heliboard" into "hellenized" and "he lib oars". This is not a matter of just lowering how aggressive the spellcheck is. It will still generate slop every time. The only real option is to completely turn it off. Futo can have similar problems, but there are a lot more options to tweak and the defaults aren't so bad.
  - NewJazz 26d ago
    I turn off automatic autocorrect except for "I". I can use it manually when I need it (jot often).
  - armadyl 26d ago
    this was my experience. the autocorrect for heliboard is beyond atrocious and renders the keyboard unusable. i ended up just using gboard on gos because every other one i tried fell short. hopefully the stock gos one can be reworked into an actually decent keyboard.
  - prmoustache 26d ago
    Autosuggestions are nice to have but there is no autocorrection that really works well in my experience regardless of OS.
- HybridStatAnim8 26d ago
  If you are referring to Heliboard as an AOSP board replacement, that cannot work, GrapheneOS cannot use GPLv3 projects. If you mean it as a user installed app, please disregard.
matheusmoreira 26d ago
Why not Unexpected Keyboard?
- yellowapple 26d ago
  As someone who uses and loves Unexpected Keyboard: the higher learning curve compared to other keyboards would be the main reason I can think of. The reliance on swipes in particular is something that's likely alien to a lot of smartphone users.
  - Gander5739 26d ago
    On the other hand, I use Thumb Key (https://github.com/dessalines/thumb-key https://github.com/dessalines/thumb-key) and think Unexpected Keyboard doesn't go far enough.
broodbucket 26d ago
I use Gboard with the network permission disabled. It works well but I hope they have a better stock keyboard, I haven't found any others that don't annoy me in one way or another.
- MrDrMcCoy 26d ago
  The latest FUTO works just as well as Gboard for me. Their somewhat recent update to their swiping library really changed the game, and their voice recognition is also pretty decent.
  - Cider9986 26d ago
    Same. Used to use GBoard, not FUTO is as good so no reason to.
    - Cider9986 25d ago
      not->now
  - fph 25d ago
    It seems like work on voice recognition has halted entirely though. On https://keyboard.futo.tech/voice-input-models https://keyboard.futo.tech/voice-input-models , community models and other models have been "coming soon" forever, and in the end the only model they offer is whisper-small, a very basic model from 2022. Which in AI is like prehistory.
- hellcow 26d ago
  Google can shuttle network requests to any of their other apps (or play services, if that's running) via IPC, even with the network permission disabled in Gboard. So if you're using Graphene for privacy from Google specifically, it's not safe to install things like Gboard even with the network permission disabled. Even if they don't use IPC in this way today, there's no telling what the Google-of-tomorrow will do.
  - 26d ago
Geezus_42 26d ago
I wish Futo had the ability to use a typing heat map for more accurate predictions like SwiftKey. It constantly suggests "AMD" when I am trying to type "and". I have fat thumbs OK! I don't even have the caps on and I RARELY talk about AMD. It's just the one thing I miss. I do find the predictions generally less accurate as well, but perfectly usable.
HybridStatAnim8 26d ago
They cannot. The license FUTO uses is not open source and is incompatible with being bundled with GrapheneOS.
mightysashiman 26d ago
Probably never happening in the next millennium. GrapheneOS has a gripe against FUTO because it is tied to Louis Rossmann, which dared to challenge GrapheneOS's social skills in the past.
- ImJamal 25d ago
  Daniel Micay stepped down as the lead dev and was where most of the lack of social skills was coming from.

Cider9986 26d ago

I agree FUTO is the best right now but it's not open source so they won't.

Groxx 26d ago
The source is here: https://gitlab.futo.org/keyboard/latinime https://gitlab.futo.org/keyboard/latinime Featured prominently in the "Source Code" container on https://keyboard.futo.tech/ https://keyboard.futo.tech/ AFAIK everything FUTO makes is open source? I haven't seen a counter-example (I have not looked hard though!), and https://futo.tech/about https://futo.tech/about claims the following: >All FUTO-funded projects are expected to be open source or develop a plan to eventually become so. No effort will ever be taken to hide from the people what their computers are doing, to limit how they use them, or to modify their behavior through their software.
- mrob 26d ago
  From the LICENSE file: https://gitlab.futo.org/keyboard/latinime/-/blob/master/LICENSE.md https://gitlab.futo.org/keyboard/latinime/-/blob/master/LICE... >You may modify the software only for non-commercial purposes such as personal use for research, experiment, and testing for the benefit of public knowledge, personal study, private entertainment, hobby projects, amateur pursuits, or religious observance, all without any anticipated commercial application. Violates clause 3 (Derived Works) and clause 6 (No Discrimination Against Fields of Endeavor) of the Open Source Definition [0]. >You may distribute the software or any part of its source code only if you do so free of charge for non-commercial purposes. Violates clause 1 (Free Redistribution) and clause 6. >Notwithstanding the above, you may not remove or obscure any functionality in the software related to payment to the Licensor in any copy you distribute to others. Violates clause 3. It is a "source available" license, not Open Source. [0] https://opensource.org/osd https://opensource.org/osd
  - Groxx 26d ago
    Ah, yeah, agreed - "source available" fits that much better. I'm pretty sure that's the same for immich (which is also from FUTO). Thank you for the details! That lays it out nicely for anyone else passing through.
    - grapheneos 26d ago
      Immich doesn't use the FUTO license because they acquired it and it was already under a copyleft open source license.
  - ravenstine 25d ago
    Thanks for sharing this! I spoke out of ignorance, having only considered the source code being available but not the licensing. (though I find narrowly defining "open source" to be rather pointless) I haven't tried every open-source Android keyboard, I've been very happy with FUTO Keyboard. Kinda too bad it's not compatible with being shipped with GrapheneOS, but it's also understandable why they'd license it this way.
- jazzyjackson 26d ago
  Right, they are adhering to a definition of open that includes free as in liberty, so licensing matters. What good is it to read the source if I don’t have rights to modify and redistribute?
- idle_zealot 26d ago
  https://gitlab.futo.org/keyboard/latinime/-/blob/master/LICENSE.md https://gitlab.futo.org/keyboard/latinime/-/blob/master/LICE... It is not open source. They use a custom source available license. There's no way any Android distribution would include it. A layman's reading is that FUTO could claim license violation on account of the distribution accepting donations (non-commercial use only) and there's a weird clause about not accusing FUTO of patent infringement.
  - mitxela 26d ago
    Alternatively they could ask FUTO for a commercial license.
    - HybridStatAnim8 26d ago
      Maybe, but there are better candidates GrapheneOS is more interested in.
      - Redster 25d ago
        Such as?
        HybridStatAnim8 25d ago
        Florisboard.
        Redster 25d ago
        Thanks! I wasn't familiar with it (using FUTO now), but it looks really good.
wolvoleo 26d ago
[dead]
arximboldi 26d ago
curious: what are the advantages of futo vs leantype? i use the latter but never looked deep into it, it just seemed the easiest better than aosp thing on f-droid

dsr_ 26d ago

Heliboard is good, customizable, and actually open source - GPL3.

sublinear 26d ago
I like Heliboard a lot, but its autocorrect gets stuck in the mud all the time. It completely falls apart and starts injecting nonsense phrases made up of nonsense misspelled words moment you miss a space ('v' or 'b') or type a really long word it doesn't know. It also stubbornly incorrects other things like 'a' into "and" if it thinks it knows a phrase fragment. It's always wrong. It just happened to me now twice. Above, "or type a" became "or type and". Also, "it's" became "IRS". Heliboard would be perfect if it stuck to word-only spellcheck and never split words. Just now again, it tried correcting "heliboard" into "hellenized" and "he lib oars". This is not a matter of just lowering how aggressive the spellcheck is. It will still generate slop every time. The only real option is to completely turn it off. Futo can have similar problems, but there are a lot more options to tweak and the defaults aren't so bad.
- NewJazz 26d ago
  I turn off automatic autocorrect except for "I". I can use it manually when I need it (jot often).
- armadyl 26d ago
  this was my experience. the autocorrect for heliboard is beyond atrocious and renders the keyboard unusable. i ended up just using gboard on gos because every other one i tried fell short. hopefully the stock gos one can be reworked into an actually decent keyboard.
- prmoustache 26d ago
  Autosuggestions are nice to have but there is no autocorrection that really works well in my experience regardless of OS.
HybridStatAnim8 26d ago
If you are referring to Heliboard as an AOSP board replacement, that cannot work, GrapheneOS cannot use GPLv3 projects. If you mean it as a user installed app, please disregard.

matheusmoreira 26d ago

Why not Unexpected Keyboard?

yellowapple 26d ago
As someone who uses and loves Unexpected Keyboard: the higher learning curve compared to other keyboards would be the main reason I can think of. The reliance on swipes in particular is something that's likely alien to a lot of smartphone users.
- Gander5739 26d ago
  On the other hand, I use Thumb Key (https://github.com/dessalines/thumb-key https://github.com/dessalines/thumb-key) and think Unexpected Keyboard doesn't go far enough.

broodbucket 26d ago

I use Gboard with the network permission disabled. It works well but I hope they have a better stock keyboard, I haven't found any others that don't annoy me in one way or another.

MrDrMcCoy 26d ago
The latest FUTO works just as well as Gboard for me. Their somewhat recent update to their swiping library really changed the game, and their voice recognition is also pretty decent.
- Cider9986 26d ago
  Same. Used to use GBoard, not FUTO is as good so no reason to.
  - Cider9986 25d ago
    not->now
- fph 25d ago
  It seems like work on voice recognition has halted entirely though. On https://keyboard.futo.tech/voice-input-models https://keyboard.futo.tech/voice-input-models , community models and other models have been "coming soon" forever, and in the end the only model they offer is whisper-small, a very basic model from 2022. Which in AI is like prehistory.
hellcow 26d ago
Google can shuttle network requests to any of their other apps (or play services, if that's running) via IPC, even with the network permission disabled in Gboard. So if you're using Graphene for privacy from Google specifically, it's not safe to install things like Gboard even with the network permission disabled. Even if they don't use IPC in this way today, there's no telling what the Google-of-tomorrow will do.
- 26d ago

Geezus_42 26d ago

I wish Futo had the ability to use a typing heat map for more accurate predictions like SwiftKey. It constantly suggests "AMD" when I am trying to type "and". I have fat thumbs OK! I don't even have the caps on and I RARELY talk about AMD. It's just the one thing I miss. I do find the predictions generally less accurate as well, but perfectly usable.

HybridStatAnim8 26d ago

They cannot. The license FUTO uses is not open source and is incompatible with being bundled with GrapheneOS.

mightysashiman 26d ago

Probably never happening in the next millennium. GrapheneOS has a gripe against FUTO because it is tied to Louis Rossmann, which dared to challenge GrapheneOS's social skills in the past.

ImJamal 25d ago
Daniel Micay stepped down as the lead dev and was where most of the lack of social skills was coming from.