4 ms·

Scrolling through the comments here, let's be honest about having actually read the entire article. Have you? Be honest. At first I had not, only the first 3-4

Scrolling through the comments here, let's be honest about having actually read the entire article. Have you? Be honest. At first I had not, only the first 3-4 paragraphs. And it just read like another one of those articles where somebody is sad about their own and their kids' habits. I then found that most comments here are about that too. But I realized that not actually reading a lengthy article like this one is part of the problem, so I went back. I have read it fully now and noticed two things. First, it's a very lengthy way to say few things. The author could surely have made the point much more crisp. But second, it's not just about the personal situation and some abstract form of person in society. It's also about those "in charge". And that's frightening.

lobofta 1mo ago
I did. The point can be made very quickly yes, but the background and context provided is what made this a good read to me. Sometimes we need to marinate in a topic for it to enter into deeper layers of the brain.
- robomc 1mo ago
  This is one of the things about the novels he describes too, and their impact on empathy. Like, you can explain to someone in 3-4 sentences that slavery is cruel but that's not the same as inhabiting a characters circumstances for 500 pages. It's a natural instinct for engineers, to think you should always convey information in the most efficient way possible, but it's actually not how real understanding tends to occur in the real world. You need a lot of noisy carrier signal and time and context etc.
froh 1mo ago
[dead]
djeastm 1mo ago
>it's a very lengthy way to say few things The author would likely suggest that we used to read for the variety of expression in the language in addition to becoming informed.
spudlyo 1mo ago
I don't know if shorter would have been better. Would that have meant omitting the bit contrasting Harry Truman and Donald Trump? For me, that bit alone was worth reading to the end. I should probably pick up a biography of Truman, I bet I'd really enjoy it. I also believe there are hierarchies of cultural value, and if that makes me an elitist, so be it, I'm an elitist.
mitxela 1mo ago
> And that's frightening. AI tell. I don't think you wrote this comment with AI, but you might want to tweak this writing style in the future.
- selcuka 1mo ago
  > you might want to tweak this writing style in the future. Not the OP, but I refuse to tweak my writing style because of that. I don't think anyone here would think that I'm AI (because English is my second language), but people have assumed that I post using AI when I write in my native language. I honestly couldn't care less. AI is mimicking me, so there is no escape in the long term.
- teiferer 1mo ago
  Um excuse me? Some people use LLMs to generate slop. That slop tends to have a certain style. I happen to use similar style. And now you are suggesting that I should adjust my style so that lazy people won't be tempted to classify it as slop? I think you got this all upside down.
  - mitxela 29d ago
    I swear, officer, it's a Buddhist symbol of peace
deleted 1mo ago
[deleted]
rigrassm 1mo ago
You got me! But in fairness, I pretty much always read through a couple comment threads and usually do that until I've read through a few differing viewpoints before ever opening the article just to get my critical thinking juices closing a bit before diving. Also helps me decide more accurately than going by the title alone if the content is going to be of substantive interest to me before I invest the effort and time into it. I'd probably estimate I actually visit about 15-20% percent of the linked content in the threads I open on HN. But I'd estimate that I probably fully read 80% of the content linked in those select threads that pique my interest so all in all I think it works out. I also don't do very much commenting compared to many on here so it doesn't really matter whether I actually read the source material in this context.
mettamage 1mo ago
> First, it's a very lengthy way to say few things. This is I think why most people on HN don't read the article. Also in part because the comments are simply more information dense, whether it is fully about the article or not. And I haven't read the article. I'm here for the comments. > Have you? Be honest. I think most people here would simply be honest, you don't need to tell them to be honest. But maybe it's my Dutch culture interplaying, but I genuinely find the "be honest" redundant and almost an insinuation that people would not be honest on HN, which would imply people tend to veer towards being deceitful? Really? On HN? HN is not Reddit.
da-x 1mo ago
I've read the whole thing, but I usually read the end paragraphs of long articles because that's where he point is made. Leading to it is: > A recent report issued by Britain’s most important cultural funding body, the Arts Council, warned against the use of “terms like excellence” which may promote “unhelpful hierarchies about what kinds of work are valued”.’ Which I find despairing. Article ends with: > The cultural elite has abandoned cultural elitism. So the point goes far beyond 'social media despair', it goes to say that the entire culture is regressing.
yawz 28d ago
Hah! I'm usually guilty of not reading the (entire) article before coming here to read the comments, which usually give me a good indication if the article is worth reading. But this time I read it all before coming here because like so many of the people here, it's hitting too close to home at many levels.

lobofta 1mo ago

I did. The point can be made very quickly yes, but the background and context provided is what made this a good read to me. Sometimes we need to marinate in a topic for it to enter into deeper layers of the brain.

robomc 1mo ago
This is one of the things about the novels he describes too, and their impact on empathy. Like, you can explain to someone in 3-4 sentences that slavery is cruel but that's not the same as inhabiting a characters circumstances for 500 pages. It's a natural instinct for engineers, to think you should always convey information in the most efficient way possible, but it's actually not how real understanding tends to occur in the real world. You need a lot of noisy carrier signal and time and context etc.

froh 1mo ago

[dead]

djeastm 1mo ago

>it's a very lengthy way to say few things The author would likely suggest that we used to read for the variety of expression in the language in addition to becoming informed.

spudlyo 1mo ago

I don't know if shorter would have been better. Would that have meant omitting the bit contrasting Harry Truman and Donald Trump? For me, that bit alone was worth reading to the end. I should probably pick up a biography of Truman, I bet I'd really enjoy it. I also believe there are hierarchies of cultural value, and if that makes me an elitist, so be it, I'm an elitist.

mitxela 1mo ago

> And that's frightening. AI tell. I don't think you wrote this comment with AI, but you might want to tweak this writing style in the future.

selcuka 1mo ago
> you might want to tweak this writing style in the future. Not the OP, but I refuse to tweak my writing style because of that. I don't think anyone here would think that I'm AI (because English is my second language), but people have assumed that I post using AI when I write in my native language. I honestly couldn't care less. AI is mimicking me, so there is no escape in the long term.
teiferer 1mo ago
Um excuse me? Some people use LLMs to generate slop. That slop tends to have a certain style. I happen to use similar style. And now you are suggesting that I should adjust my style so that lazy people won't be tempted to classify it as slop? I think you got this all upside down.
- mitxela 29d ago
  I swear, officer, it's a Buddhist symbol of peace

deleted 1mo ago

[deleted]

rigrassm 1mo ago

You got me! But in fairness, I pretty much always read through a couple comment threads and usually do that until I've read through a few differing viewpoints before ever opening the article just to get my critical thinking juices closing a bit before diving. Also helps me decide more accurately than going by the title alone if the content is going to be of substantive interest to me before I invest the effort and time into it. I'd probably estimate I actually visit about 15-20% percent of the linked content in the threads I open on HN. But I'd estimate that I probably fully read 80% of the content linked in those select threads that pique my interest so all in all I think it works out. I also don't do very much commenting compared to many on here so it doesn't really matter whether I actually read the source material in this context.

mettamage 1mo ago

> First, it's a very lengthy way to say few things. This is I think why most people on HN don't read the article. Also in part because the comments are simply more information dense, whether it is fully about the article or not. And I haven't read the article. I'm here for the comments. > Have you? Be honest. I think most people here would simply be honest, you don't need to tell them to be honest. But maybe it's my Dutch culture interplaying, but I genuinely find the "be honest" redundant and almost an insinuation that people would not be honest on HN, which would imply people tend to veer towards being deceitful? Really? On HN? HN is not Reddit.

da-x 1mo ago

I've read the whole thing, but I usually read the end paragraphs of long articles because that's where he point is made. Leading to it is: > A recent report issued by Britain’s most important cultural funding body, the Arts Council, warned against the use of “terms like excellence” which may promote “unhelpful hierarchies about what kinds of work are valued”.’ Which I find despairing. Article ends with: > The cultural elite has abandoned cultural elitism. So the point goes far beyond 'social media despair', it goes to say that the entire culture is regressing.

yawz 28d ago

Hah! I'm usually guilty of not reading the (entire) article before coming here to read the comments, which usually give me a good indication if the article is worth reading. But this time I read it all before coming here because like so many of the people here, it's hitting too close to home at many levels.