4 ms·
Which is why efforts by China to stand up independent cross border payment rails are important. You have to cut the US out of any ability to control activities
by toomuchtodo 2mo ago
Which is why efforts by China to stand up independent cross border payment rails are important. You have to cut the US out of any ability to control activities outside of their boundaries.
China, Egypt to do away with the use of the US dollar - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49555056 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49555056 - September 2026
China nears launch of mBridge as alternative to Swift - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48636931 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48636931 - June 2026
- bpavuk 2mo agoand Europe. Europe should also decouple itself from the U.S. as much as it is possible, and not repeat the mistake of overreliance with China. not because China is somehow worse, but because you always should be able to say "no", no matter how good your partners are
- toomuchtodo 2mo agoThey are. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49225112 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49225112
- RonanSoleste 2mo agoEurope is decoupling itself all ready also. Using SEPA-Inst and wero.
- swiftcoder 2mo agoUnfortunately decoupling payments within the EU is insufficient if the US can just threaten to sanction your bank, and in doing so force the bank to drop you as a customer. Even in the presence of an internal European payments network, those banks still need to transact with the US and other US-sphere countries...
- toomuchtodo 2mo agoFor now, but not forever. Skate to where the puck is going to be. Decoupling continues, with the target being independence. Quote this comment five years from now.
- riffraff 2mo agoNot forever but long enough: there's no foreseeable future where the USA becomes an economy small enough to not be worth trading in. For most banks the ability to sell financial instruments which end up interacting with the US financial institutions is fundamental.
- deleted 2mo ago[deleted]
- mahkeiro 2mo agoNo but then you can have local bank that will not have US interactions but can still serve you. Since the French judge of the IPC was sanctioned, it’s clear that the EU must completely decouple from the US.
- mitxela 2mo ago[dead]
- Gigachad 2mo agoThe more times the US uses this as a weapon, the less power it holds and the more effort other countries go through to decouple.
- mitxela 2mo agoThe payment system has to be decoupled first, and then banks can have nothing to fear from US sanctions.
- swiftcoder 2mo ago> The payment system has to be decoupled first, and then banks can have nothing to fear from US sanctions. I'm not sure the payment system is most banks primary concern. Being able to buy/sell US securities turns out to be a fairly fundamental part of the modern economy
- david_draco 2mo agoThe US pressured Europe last time, in 2019, into aligning with their sanctions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrument_in_Support_of_Trade_Exchanges https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrument_in_Support_of_Trade... The Iran situation could have gone better if trade and JCPOA nuclear oversight had continued.
- deleted 2mo ago[deleted]
- iwontberude 2mo ago[dead]
- graemep 2mo agoSo the rest of the world has the option of relying on China instead? How is that better?
- deleted 2mo ago[deleted]
- mandolingual 2mo agoA small third party at the junction of two giants is infinitely more powerful than a small third party obliged to be the client of one.
- graemep 2mo agoSometimes, yes. In the case of bankings systems combined with payment systems you could end up reliant on both. If the US sanctions you only people using a Chinese OS to make payments through a Chinese payment system will be unaffected and vice-versa. Either will be able to take your economy down.
- FabCH 2mo agoTBH China is not currently bombing a foreign country for no reason and it is not threatening to invade its allies. It’s not a particularly high bar, but of the big powers, only China currently meets it. And I know you will say „but payment networks are not a warfare question, they are an economic question“ but that kind of breaks down when they are used to sanction ICC judges presiding over war crime cases.