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Yeah, but do you control international banking the way they do? That's ultimately how they're able to do this.
by mcv 1mo ago
Yeah, but do you control international banking the way they do? That's ultimately how they're able to do this.
- toomuchtodo 1mo agoWhich is why efforts by China to stand up independent cross border payment rails are important. You have to cut the US out of any ability to control activities outside of their boundaries. China, Egypt to do away with the use of the US dollar - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49555056 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49555056 - September 2026 China nears launch of mBridge as alternative to Swift - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48636931 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48636931 - June 2026
- bpavuk 1mo agoand Europe. Europe should also decouple itself from the U.S. as much as it is possible, and not repeat the mistake of overreliance with China. not because China is somehow worse, but because you always should be able to say "no", no matter how good your partners are
- toomuchtodo 1mo agoThey are. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49225112 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49225112
- RonanSoleste 1mo agoEurope is decoupling itself all ready also. Using SEPA-Inst and wero.
- swiftcoder 1mo agoUnfortunately decoupling payments within the EU is insufficient if the US can just threaten to sanction your bank, and in doing so force the bank to drop you as a customer. Even in the presence of an internal European payments network, those banks still need to transact with the US and other US-sphere countries...
- toomuchtodo 1mo agoFor now, but not forever. Skate to where the puck is going to be. Decoupling continues, with the target being independence. Quote this comment five years from now.
- riffraff 29d agoNot forever but long enough: there's no foreseeable future where the USA becomes an economy small enough to not be worth trading in. For most banks the ability to sell financial instruments which end up interacting with the US financial institutions is fundamental.
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- mahkeiro 1mo agoNo but then you can have local bank that will not have US interactions but can still serve you. Since the French judge of the IPC was sanctioned, it’s clear that the EU must completely decouple from the US.
- mitxela 29d ago[dead]
- Gigachad 29d agoThe more times the US uses this as a weapon, the less power it holds and the more effort other countries go through to decouple.
- mitxela 29d agoThe payment system has to be decoupled first, and then banks can have nothing to fear from US sanctions.
- swiftcoder 29d ago> The payment system has to be decoupled first, and then banks can have nothing to fear from US sanctions. I'm not sure the payment system is most banks primary concern. Being able to buy/sell US securities turns out to be a fairly fundamental part of the modern economy
- david_draco 1mo agoThe US pressured Europe last time, in 2019, into aligning with their sanctions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrument_in_Support_of_Trade_Exchanges https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrument_in_Support_of_Trade... The Iran situation could have gone better if trade and JCPOA nuclear oversight had continued.
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- iwontberude 1mo ago[dead]
- graemep 1mo agoSo the rest of the world has the option of relying on China instead? How is that better?
- deleted 1mo ago[deleted]
- mandolingual 1mo agoA small third party at the junction of two giants is infinitely more powerful than a small third party obliged to be the client of one.
- graemep 1mo agoSometimes, yes. In the case of bankings systems combined with payment systems you could end up reliant on both. If the US sanctions you only people using a Chinese OS to make payments through a Chinese payment system will be unaffected and vice-versa. Either will be able to take your economy down.
- FabCH 1mo agoTBH China is not currently bombing a foreign country for no reason and it is not threatening to invade its allies. It’s not a particularly high bar, but of the big powers, only China currently meets it. And I know you will say „but payment networks are not a warfare question, they are an economic question“ but that kind of breaks down when they are used to sanction ICC judges presiding over war crime cases.
- JeffRosenberg 1mo agoWhat I find wild is that this control over international banking, and the sanctions it enables, is a key benefit of the US-led world order that Trump is trying to dismantle. I’m quite sure he doesn’t understand this, but a key consequence of his efforts to stop the US from getting “ripped off” is that we will soon no longer have the ability to impose these sorts of sanctions as the global economy re-routes around American control.
- Frieren 1mo ago> Yeah, but do you control international banking the way they do? This is why Europe needs to detach itself from the American banking system. It used to be very practical to use it. Countries renounced to some sovereignty in exchange for ease of doing business. The USA had an advantage but it didn't abuse it too much. The current situation is that the USA is asking to forfeit sovereignty and to control business in an ideological basis. There is a strong incentive to leave that system as the alternative is become a colony of the USA. And the push for colonization is not subtle as the president takes over other countries resources like Venezuela's oil or tries to take control of the straight of Hormuz (None part of the USA at this moment)
- graemep 1mo agoAt the moment Europe is getting more reliant on the US. There are new non-Us payment systems but the end user devices are Apple or Google controlled. Governments and banks are very eager to get rid of cash, to introduce digital ID etc. That all relies on American platforms.
- Frieren 1mo ago> That all relies on American platforms. Totally true. The EU needs its own platforms, I hope that better regulated than their USA counterparts. Linux started in Europe, it should have been promoted more for internal usage. But privatization of state-owned companies made it ideologically impossible to push for it. Public good was seen as "bad" and "against business", I hope that the obvious failure of that policy makes it now a possibility to use Linux.
- mcv 29d agoWe used to. Contactless payments from my phone didn't require Google Wallet a few years ago, but now they do. My bank passes suddenly say VISA and have credit card numbers on them which they didn't have a few years ago. European banks are going in the completely wrong direction and need to reverse.
- 29d ago
- crawfordcomeaux 1mo agoJust because millions of us haven't marched on the banks globally in a coordinated effort to control the banking system doesn't mean we can't. Just have not yet done it.