4 ms·

Sinners was a scifi movie...? About vampires in the past...?! Wild. Ditto for Claire Oscura: Expedition 33, which I thought was high fantasy / steampunk at most

by bbor 1mo ago

Sinners was a scifi movie...? About vampires in the past...?! Wild. Ditto for Claire Oscura: Expedition 33, which I thought was high fantasy / steampunk at most. *EDIT:* It appears I'm just being silly, and the Hugos include fantasy. Ironically, the biggest fantasy series of our time by far has won 3 times in Novella form and once in TV form, but never the novels!

mapontosevenths 1mo ago
The difference between science fiction and fantasy was always only a tenuous distinction imposed by the few nerds who cared a little too much. As we age out of being culturally relevant, and newer (likely less literate) generations take over the definitions will change, and perhaps should. To me only hard science fiction will ever count, but I recognize that I'm in the minority there and also don't want to scare away the three remaining readers through gatekeeping.
- srean 1mo ago
  Fantasys felt so lazy to me. Although sometimes I do enjoy the descriptions. But there is always an escape hatch out of a trouble and one that was not foreshadowed. It is constraints that makes things interesting and especially the higher order consequences of constraints and new tech.
  - mapontosevenths 1mo ago
    Agreed. Fiction where the solution was "and then he found out he was the chosen one so magic happened" are unsatisfying.
    - smgpie 1mo ago
      What you described does not qualify as a good fantasy either. There needs to be rules even in the world of magic, and eventually so called hard fiction and fantasy only really differ in the way how they present the fantasies. There is a book I love: Lord of Light by Roger Zelazny, in which he first wrote about fantasy figures with magic powers in Buddhism tales, and then revealed that they were just humans with high tech and play gods to those who don't.
      - srean 1mo ago
        Thanks for the recommendation . Sounds like a good read.
SamBam 1mo ago
You're not the only one to be taken aback by that. Yes, the Hugos do fantasy, but I'm not sure I would have even thought to categorize Sinners as fantasy. I mean, yes, it has vampires. Was From Dusk till Dawn fantasy? But as a sister comment suggests, categorization is never easy, and probably just reinforced personal biases. (See Old Town Road being reminded from Billboard's country music list.)
- neaden 1mo ago
  I think by definition any vampire story is a fantasy story yes. Since vampires are not real and thus a fantasy creature.
  - welferkj 1mo ago
    I'd say that line can be blurred somewhat by "Blindsight". "Not real" isn't where I'd put the line, it's "not plausibly and consistently explained (or at least explained away) within the laws of nature.
  - SamBam 1mo ago
    There's more to Fantasy than a single boolean "does it contain something that is not real?" Fantasy gets applied to the work as a whole, to its dominant tone and structure, not to one element. A work of fantasy usually has other elements that show it to be such. Is there world-building? Is it a quest or a hero story? Is there some kind of lore that grounds the whole universe? Not all of those are necessary, but usually you can clearly define the whole work holistically as Fantasy. From Dusk till Dawn in particular is a straight crime thriller that turns into a horror movie. Ok, I got nerd-sniped into trying to define Fantasy after saying I wouldn't.
    - neaden 1mo ago
      I don't think crime thriller or horror have anything to do with if a story is fantasy. Alien is a sci fi movie and a horror movie. Psycho is a horror movie with no fantasy elements. Sinners is a fantasy horror movie. It sounds like you are talking about epic or high fantasy, but there is fantasy romance, fantasy detective, fantasy crime thriller etc. You can even have a fantasy sci fi movie like Star Wars.
ycombinete 1mo ago
What is the biggest fantasy series of our time?
- stevenwoo 1mo ago
  A Song of Ice and Fire (contemporary writing I assume), it lost to Harry Potter book against one of GRRM’s best books/chance for win in novel category one year and Spin in another year(Accelerando was another nominee that year)
  - 3eb7988a1663 1mo ago
    Surely on cultural impact Harry Potter has to win. While GoT had a decade flash in the pan, Harry Potter is still deeply in the cultural zeitgeist. "Muggles", "You're a Hufflepuff", etc have become cemented into our vocabulary. GoT is undoubtedly more complex, interesting world, but it never had a generation of children reading the midnight book release. That the author actually penned the series finale is also worth something.
    - stevenwoo 1mo ago
      The Hugo voting is kind of skewed since it’s a membership thing where anyone can join but one has to be aware of it and care enough to join.
    - ycombinete 1mo ago
      That's what I was thinking! I was sure my parent meant GoT. But there can't be many metrics at all where GoT beats out HP for the title of "biggest fantasy series of our time".
- GlobalChubby 1mo ago
  The Broken Earth Trilogy by N.K. Jemisin
  - watwut 1mo ago
    That one is great.

by bbor 1mo ago

mapontosevenths 1mo ago

The difference between science fiction and fantasy was always only a tenuous distinction imposed by the few nerds who cared a little too much. As we age out of being culturally relevant, and newer (likely less literate) generations take over the definitions will change, and perhaps should. To me only hard science fiction will ever count, but I recognize that I'm in the minority there and also don't want to scare away the three remaining readers through gatekeeping.

srean 1mo ago
Fantasys felt so lazy to me. Although sometimes I do enjoy the descriptions. But there is always an escape hatch out of a trouble and one that was not foreshadowed. It is constraints that makes things interesting and especially the higher order consequences of constraints and new tech.
- mapontosevenths 1mo ago
  Agreed. Fiction where the solution was "and then he found out he was the chosen one so magic happened" are unsatisfying.
  - smgpie 1mo ago
    What you described does not qualify as a good fantasy either. There needs to be rules even in the world of magic, and eventually so called hard fiction and fantasy only really differ in the way how they present the fantasies. There is a book I love: Lord of Light by Roger Zelazny, in which he first wrote about fantasy figures with magic powers in Buddhism tales, and then revealed that they were just humans with high tech and play gods to those who don't.
    - srean 1mo ago
      Thanks for the recommendation . Sounds like a good read.

SamBam 1mo ago

You're not the only one to be taken aback by that. Yes, the Hugos do fantasy, but I'm not sure I would have even thought to categorize Sinners as fantasy. I mean, yes, it has vampires. Was From Dusk till Dawn fantasy? But as a sister comment suggests, categorization is never easy, and probably just reinforced personal biases. (See Old Town Road being reminded from Billboard's country music list.)

neaden 1mo ago
I think by definition any vampire story is a fantasy story yes. Since vampires are not real and thus a fantasy creature.
- welferkj 1mo ago
  I'd say that line can be blurred somewhat by "Blindsight". "Not real" isn't where I'd put the line, it's "not plausibly and consistently explained (or at least explained away) within the laws of nature.
- SamBam 1mo ago
  There's more to Fantasy than a single boolean "does it contain something that is not real?" Fantasy gets applied to the work as a whole, to its dominant tone and structure, not to one element. A work of fantasy usually has other elements that show it to be such. Is there world-building? Is it a quest or a hero story? Is there some kind of lore that grounds the whole universe? Not all of those are necessary, but usually you can clearly define the whole work holistically as Fantasy. From Dusk till Dawn in particular is a straight crime thriller that turns into a horror movie. Ok, I got nerd-sniped into trying to define Fantasy after saying I wouldn't.
  - neaden 1mo ago
    I don't think crime thriller or horror have anything to do with if a story is fantasy. Alien is a sci fi movie and a horror movie. Psycho is a horror movie with no fantasy elements. Sinners is a fantasy horror movie. It sounds like you are talking about epic or high fantasy, but there is fantasy romance, fantasy detective, fantasy crime thriller etc. You can even have a fantasy sci fi movie like Star Wars.

ycombinete 1mo ago

What is the biggest fantasy series of our time?

stevenwoo 1mo ago
A Song of Ice and Fire (contemporary writing I assume), it lost to Harry Potter book against one of GRRM’s best books/chance for win in novel category one year and Spin in another year(Accelerando was another nominee that year)
- 3eb7988a1663 1mo ago
  Surely on cultural impact Harry Potter has to win. While GoT had a decade flash in the pan, Harry Potter is still deeply in the cultural zeitgeist. "Muggles", "You're a Hufflepuff", etc have become cemented into our vocabulary. GoT is undoubtedly more complex, interesting world, but it never had a generation of children reading the midnight book release. That the author actually penned the series finale is also worth something.
  - stevenwoo 1mo ago
    The Hugo voting is kind of skewed since it’s a membership thing where anyone can join but one has to be aware of it and care enough to join.
  - ycombinete 1mo ago
    That's what I was thinking! I was sure my parent meant GoT. But there can't be many metrics at all where GoT beats out HP for the title of "biggest fantasy series of our time".
GlobalChubby 1mo ago
The Broken Earth Trilogy by N.K. Jemisin
- watwut 1mo ago
  That one is great.