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All of the post 9-11 measures other then: - securing the cockpit - training staff to resist hijacking - ensuring checked bags have boarded passengers Are wo
by lokar 1mo ago
All of the post 9-11 measures other then:
- securing the cockpit
- training staff to resist hijacking
- ensuring checked bags have boarded passengers
Are worthless theater.
But, if you don’t accept that, and believe that more physical passenger screening is important, adjusting the level of screening based on a per-passenger threat assessment seems reasonable.
- twoodfin 1mo agoNo selective HUMINT is worthwhile?
- lokar 1mo agoI'm not sure what you mean
- twoodfin 1mo agoAn awful lot of money was spent on systems to track and profile fliers. It’s the reason TSA Precheck is a thing at all.
- lokar 1mo agoI still can’t see the point you are trying to make
- twoodfin 1mo ago“All the post-9/11 security measures other than… are worthless theater.” My point is that many of those security measures are largely invisible to passengers, but for the introduction of things like “Trusted Traveler #”’s
- grishka 1mo ago> ensuring checked bags have boarded passengers You mean you used to be able to just send a bag without flying yourself, and have someone else pick it up at the destination airport? Was this something that people did intentionally or did it happen accidentally?
- lokar 1mo agoYou could check in, check your bags, and then walk out. They would not remove the bag from the plane.
- flyingshelf 1mo agoFWIW your bags may still occasionally travel without you (but you still have to board A flight)
- chronc7403 1mo ago> FWIW your bags may still occasionally travel without you (but you still have to board A flight) This is false. If you check into the airport early (4+ hours) your bag may go on an earlier flight without you. And you can decide not to board your original flight.
- flyingshelf 1mo agoI wouldn't say false especially when quoting the whole sentence. What you suggest is so rare (worldwide) it might as well be false. It's such a bad idea for the airline to ship your bags before the passenger makes it onto the plane.
- unsnap_biceps 1mo agoIsn't that the case today? They're loading the baggage while people board and they don't hold the bag until you get your ticket scanned in.
- YZF 1mo agoIf the owner of a bag does not board the bag is removed.
- unsnap_biceps 1mo agoI've never heard of this happening, and I'm skeptical. I fly a decent amount and my luggage gets misplaced likely in the low percents (more than 1%, less than 5%). I struggle to believe they'll be aware enough to unload a full cargo compartment. But I could be wrong. Maybe it's just rare enough that I haven't run into it. I would expect it would delay the flight by a noticeable amount. And it would be fairly obvious that they're unloading luggage and then reloading it. It's not like they can just send someone in to climb around and find it. They pack them in tight.
- AlotOfReading 1mo agoHow is ensuring checked bags have boarded passengers not also theater? Airlines openly sell unattended cargo space on passenger flights and it's screened the same way as checked luggage.
- brookst 1mo agoDo you get to specify the plane it goes on? Can you purchase it untraceable, the way you can you a plane ticket with a prepaid card, check in and check luggage without any ID?
- AlotOfReading 1mo agoYou can constrain the plane it goes on because there's only a small number of flights between city pairs with a given carrier. You also can't buy a plane ticket for an anonymous person. It has to be for a legal person, which the government is informed of before the flight takes place. That ID is attached to the luggage when it's checked, which is how they can implement bag retrieval when the passenger doesn't board. I'm sure there's an airline somewhere out there accepting checked bags without tickets or ID, but it's not supposed to be allowed. For air cargo, someone provides an ID, but it's usually the shipper or some other person with no real involvement beyond working in the supply chain. There's a chain of check boxes that says "I received this from an entity I have a legitimate business relationship with" and that's good enough in practice.
- lokar 1mo agoI should add, two other items that I think were added in this time period, which are not security related, but IMO are good are: - seriously, you need to follow the instructions of the staff on board - don't get (very) drunk before or after boarding, don't bring and drink your own alcohol
- dlcarrier 1mo agoFun fact: It's expressly illegal to move around the cabin when the seatbelt sign is on while taxiing, but not when in the air. Turbulence is probably the leading cause of injuries and deaths from modern air travel, but taxiing incidents at extremely rare and pretty much never result in injuries.
- nonce42 1mo agoYesterday, I saw an interesting Lufthansa training film from the 1970s explaining how aircraft crews should respond to hijacking. (In the early 1970s, hijackings occurred weekly.) Most of the recommendations from security experts turned out to be exactly wrong for 9/11: Don't attempt anything against the hijackers. Do everything the hijackers demand. Passengers should follow the instructions of the hijackers and should not try to be heros. On the other hand, they described locked cabin doors with TV monitors. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pzIbUW8jIw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pzIbUW8jIw