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I've never had that. Is the honey on the bottom? EDIT: >> Super clean. No weird chemicals. Worse for you than UPF yogurt. Ingredients list says it's got 21%

I've never had that. Is the honey on the bottom? EDIT: >> Super clean. No weird chemicals. Worse for you than UPF yogurt. Ingredients list says it's got 21% sugars. Why is that "worse for you than UPF yogurt"? I think you have a weird headcanon about what's good and bad for you and that has nothing to do with UPFs. 21g of sugar (of which 11 is honey going by the ingredients list always) is a US teaspoonful and a half. You 're not gonna die younger if that's your daily sugar intake.

tptacek 1mo ago
Dunno! The thought of sweetened yogurt grosses me out. In fact, all yogurt does, largely because of the name "yo-gurt". I can eat skyr if I mix it into other things or make labneh out of it. (Following up on your edit) Because it's more caloric than plain yogurt, for otherwise the same macro profile.
- YeGoblynQueenne 1mo ago
  Ewe's milk yogurt is more caloric than plain cow's milk yogurt (because of higher fat content). Does that make ewe's milk yogurt "worse for you than UPF yogurt"?
  - tptacek 1mo ago
    Put two identically sized servings of yogurt side by side, equal in all aspects except that one is 100kcal and the other, because of added sugar, is 170kcal. The 170kcal serving is less healthful; the other is a UPF.
    - tptacek 1mo ago
      Here's another. This is not a UPF, and it's overtly dessert yogurt. https://www.lafermiere.us/yogurts https://www.lafermiere.us/yogurts (The fruit-at-the-bottom variants are presumably UPFs).
      - YeGoblynQueenne 1mo ago
        So, I haven't made any yogurt in a while but from memory it takes about half an hour for milk to set, depending on what milk and what yogurt starter etc. No way you can make an emulsion of e.g. milk, sugar and vanilla that is stable for that long. So either you have to use stabilizers, or you have to accept that your flavourings are not going to be evenly distributed throughout your yogurt. I can't know the latter since I can't buy that brand in Greece (for rather obvious reasons it's not imported here). If I look at the list of ingredients for e.g. the Vanilla Bean yogurt I see "Pasteurized Whole Milk, Pasteurized Cream..." and that's your stabilizer there. How much is there? The "Nutrition Facts" label on top lists "Total fat 12g" per serving which is "1 container" of 140 grams. That's ~9% fat, so about 5% more than plain cow's milk (at 4g per 100g). The total fat is more than the fat in ewe's milk (about 6%). I ... guess the extra fat makes the milk and vanilla bean powder emulsion last a bit longer so it gets better mixed in during the fermentation time? Dunno. The packaging says "Traces of vanilla seeds and marbling on top of the yogurt are the results of a natural infusion process". The other flavours don't have a similar disclaimer but they all have extra fat in the form of pasteurized cream. So anyway you get both a stabilizer and uneven distribution at least for the vanilla. If you have a strong enough flavour I reckon that's not a problem though. EDIT: (The fruit-at-the-bottom variants are presumably UPFs). They don't have to. If you're just mixing some fruit in milk and then fermenting it to make yogurt, that's just processed (going by NOVA AFAIU). But looking at the ingredients list I see e.g. "Corn starch, Natural Flavor, Lemon Juice Concentrate, Pectin" etc. Ew. No, that's a UPF. You don't need to put that stuff in yogurt. Not if the point is to enjoy it.
        tptacek 1mo ago
        No. Pasteurization isn't a UPF technique. See the problem?
      - YeGoblynQueenne 1mo ago
        It's late and I have to go to sleep so answering here. >> No. Pasteurization isn't a UPF technique. See the problem? My argument is that the extra fat is used as a stabilizer that wouldn't need to be included if the maker wasn't trying to force their yogurt to hold other stuff in it than milk. The use of a stabilizer makes it a UPF, not the fact that the cream is pasteurised- that makes no difference as you say.
    - YeGoblynQueenne 1mo ago
      I don't get that. AFAICT UPF is about the way foods are made, not how many calories they have.
      - tptacek 1mo ago
        You're not confused. You're right. That's my point. "UPF" is not a useful health labeling system. Whether or not something qualifies as a UPF doesn't tell you whether it's a healthy choice. The most unhealthy food choices tend to be UPFs. But that's not a causal relationship.
        YeGoblynQueenne 1mo ago
        I think the confusion is that you're loosening up the relation: food can be unhealthy without it being UPF. The relation is an implication, not an equivalence: UPF implies unhealthy. Unhealthy doesn't imply UPF. So e.g. food with too many calories as in your example can be unhealthy because it can make you fat without it having to be a UPF. Are you saying that you want a classification that flags up every kind of unhealthy food?

tptacek 1mo ago

Dunno! The thought of sweetened yogurt grosses me out. In fact, all yogurt does, largely because of the name "yo-gurt". I can eat skyr if I mix it into other things or make labneh out of it. (Following up on your edit) Because it's more caloric than plain yogurt, for otherwise the same macro profile.

YeGoblynQueenne 1mo ago
Ewe's milk yogurt is more caloric than plain cow's milk yogurt (because of higher fat content). Does that make ewe's milk yogurt "worse for you than UPF yogurt"?
- tptacek 1mo ago
  Put two identically sized servings of yogurt side by side, equal in all aspects except that one is 100kcal and the other, because of added sugar, is 170kcal. The 170kcal serving is less healthful; the other is a UPF.
  - tptacek 1mo ago
    Here's another. This is not a UPF, and it's overtly dessert yogurt. https://www.lafermiere.us/yogurts https://www.lafermiere.us/yogurts (The fruit-at-the-bottom variants are presumably UPFs).
    - YeGoblynQueenne 1mo ago
      So, I haven't made any yogurt in a while but from memory it takes about half an hour for milk to set, depending on what milk and what yogurt starter etc. No way you can make an emulsion of e.g. milk, sugar and vanilla that is stable for that long. So either you have to use stabilizers, or you have to accept that your flavourings are not going to be evenly distributed throughout your yogurt. I can't know the latter since I can't buy that brand in Greece (for rather obvious reasons it's not imported here). If I look at the list of ingredients for e.g. the Vanilla Bean yogurt I see "Pasteurized Whole Milk, Pasteurized Cream..." and that's your stabilizer there. How much is there? The "Nutrition Facts" label on top lists "Total fat 12g" per serving which is "1 container" of 140 grams. That's ~9% fat, so about 5% more than plain cow's milk (at 4g per 100g). The total fat is more than the fat in ewe's milk (about 6%). I ... guess the extra fat makes the milk and vanilla bean powder emulsion last a bit longer so it gets better mixed in during the fermentation time? Dunno. The packaging says "Traces of vanilla seeds and marbling on top of the yogurt are the results of a natural infusion process". The other flavours don't have a similar disclaimer but they all have extra fat in the form of pasteurized cream. So anyway you get both a stabilizer and uneven distribution at least for the vanilla. If you have a strong enough flavour I reckon that's not a problem though. EDIT: (The fruit-at-the-bottom variants are presumably UPFs). They don't have to. If you're just mixing some fruit in milk and then fermenting it to make yogurt, that's just processed (going by NOVA AFAIU). But looking at the ingredients list I see e.g. "Corn starch, Natural Flavor, Lemon Juice Concentrate, Pectin" etc. Ew. No, that's a UPF. You don't need to put that stuff in yogurt. Not if the point is to enjoy it.
      - tptacek 1mo ago
        No. Pasteurization isn't a UPF technique. See the problem?
    - YeGoblynQueenne 1mo ago
      It's late and I have to go to sleep so answering here. >> No. Pasteurization isn't a UPF technique. See the problem? My argument is that the extra fat is used as a stabilizer that wouldn't need to be included if the maker wasn't trying to force their yogurt to hold other stuff in it than milk. The use of a stabilizer makes it a UPF, not the fact that the cream is pasteurised- that makes no difference as you say.
  - YeGoblynQueenne 1mo ago
    I don't get that. AFAICT UPF is about the way foods are made, not how many calories they have.
    - tptacek 1mo ago
      You're not confused. You're right. That's my point. "UPF" is not a useful health labeling system. Whether or not something qualifies as a UPF doesn't tell you whether it's a healthy choice. The most unhealthy food choices tend to be UPFs. But that's not a causal relationship.
      - YeGoblynQueenne 1mo ago
        I think the confusion is that you're loosening up the relation: food can be unhealthy without it being UPF. The relation is an implication, not an equivalence: UPF implies unhealthy. Unhealthy doesn't imply UPF. So e.g. food with too many calories as in your example can be unhealthy because it can make you fat without it having to be a UPF. Are you saying that you want a classification that flags up every kind of unhealthy food?