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Sounds like an unhealthy person and situation such that 12 hours of labor is mandatory Step one would be to help them get into a situation where that wasn’t tr

Sounds like an unhealthy person and situation such that 12 hours of labor is mandatory Step one would be to help them get into a situation where that wasn’t true

aliasxneo 27d ago
If enough people decide they want to spend their liberty not working, then the 12 hours is a necessity, not something "unhealthy" about the person.
- AndrewKemendo 27d ago
  Sounds like you’ve got your world model rock solid
  - aliasxneo 27d ago
    It mostly just feels like basic maths, not really a world model. Productivity is a finite resource. If there's a deficit in productivity, people will necessarily suffer and, in the worst case, die. The problem is world views that suggest giving everyone a free choice that enough people will choose productivity while everyone else chooses leisure. I'd be more apt to believe it if we had evidence of it being a natural outcome.
    - pocksuppet 27d ago
      It doesn't have to be so extreme though. Basic scenario: 20% of everyone's income is taxed and then distributed equally to everyone (no matter what, and without setting any fixed dollar amount), another 10% pays for administrative functions and government stuff except welfare, and the remaining 70% is theirs to do with as they please. What would happen? Would everyone quit their job? I don't think so, because 70% is a lot. Some people with jobs that pay so poorly their 70% is less than everyone's average 20% would quit, but that's good, because those were zombie jobs.
      - aliasxneo 27d ago
        I'd be fine with this so long as people who didn't contribute any taxes couldn't vote. Otherwise you're just signing up for those who choose to work to get exploited by the leisurely.
        pocksuppet 27d ago
        How much is "none"? Exactly $0.00? Can someone who donates $0.01 to the government every year vote?
        AndrewKemendo 27d ago
        “I need the world to comfort my fears” You’re correct. A society filled with people with this view can’t work
        Moomoomoo309 26d ago
        Are there historical examples of this ever happening in any significant numbers? This idea that people en masse just won't work and live off of the state where opportunities for work are reasonably available seems more like a boogeyman than a real thing. (obviously, if work is not really available, I can see this happening, but I wouldn't describe the people unable to find work as "leisurely" in that case)

Sounds like an unhealthy person and situation such that 12 hours of labor is mandatory Step one would be to help them get into a situation where that wasn’t true

aliasxneo 27d ago

If enough people decide they want to spend their liberty not working, then the 12 hours is a necessity, not something "unhealthy" about the person.

AndrewKemendo 27d ago
Sounds like you’ve got your world model rock solid
- aliasxneo 27d ago
  It mostly just feels like basic maths, not really a world model. Productivity is a finite resource. If there's a deficit in productivity, people will necessarily suffer and, in the worst case, die. The problem is world views that suggest giving everyone a free choice that enough people will choose productivity while everyone else chooses leisure. I'd be more apt to believe it if we had evidence of it being a natural outcome.
  - pocksuppet 27d ago
    It doesn't have to be so extreme though. Basic scenario: 20% of everyone's income is taxed and then distributed equally to everyone (no matter what, and without setting any fixed dollar amount), another 10% pays for administrative functions and government stuff except welfare, and the remaining 70% is theirs to do with as they please. What would happen? Would everyone quit their job? I don't think so, because 70% is a lot. Some people with jobs that pay so poorly their 70% is less than everyone's average 20% would quit, but that's good, because those were zombie jobs.
    - aliasxneo 27d ago
      I'd be fine with this so long as people who didn't contribute any taxes couldn't vote. Otherwise you're just signing up for those who choose to work to get exploited by the leisurely.
      - pocksuppet 27d ago
        How much is "none"? Exactly $0.00? Can someone who donates $0.01 to the government every year vote?
      - AndrewKemendo 27d ago
        “I need the world to comfort my fears” You’re correct. A society filled with people with this view can’t work
      - Moomoomoo309 26d ago
        Are there historical examples of this ever happening in any significant numbers? This idea that people en masse just won't work and live off of the state where opportunities for work are reasonably available seems more like a boogeyman than a real thing. (obviously, if work is not really available, I can see this happening, but I wouldn't describe the people unable to find work as "leisurely" in that case)