5 ms·

They started developing this rocket in the late 2010s, way before the current US craziness (or the current level of craziness anyway). Independent access to spa

They started developing this rocket in the late 2010s, way before the current US craziness (or the current level of craziness anyway). Independent access to space is always desirable for countries that can muster the resources, but this is just one of many companies that appeared back then as a response to SpaceX's initial success.

Eupolemos 29d ago
Eh, you can split us Europeans up into two camps; those who do not want to see the problem and those who couldn't look away. The second camp saw the craziness when the later Bush was elected a second time.
- tosapple 29d ago
  one of those bush votes was to ensure he could clean up his own mess.
  - Forgeties79 29d ago
    I’m curious what you mean by this. At face value it seems like a weird rationalization but I get the sense I’m not reading this correctly.
  - wilg 29d ago
    lmao what
  - tosapple 27d ago
    what kind've voter intimidating sh* is this? down-voted for being honest, promoting understanding and responsibility? jokes on you guys as i firmly believe bullying racketeering and intimidation are quite literally terrorism when applied to population groups consisting of more than (1) individual. careful on that slippery slope.
- whatsThisBtn4 29d ago
  I'd split it into 2 camps. Elites who realize Europe isn't a unified group or has a military strong enough for defense.. And people who get wet when France says they are going to send soldiers to Ukraine and it never materializes. The general population has 0 understanding of international relations. It's the United States and China right now. Any other belief comes from someone who has read 0 international relations Realism books.
  - sebmellen 29d ago
    Realpolitik sorely lacking
    - whatsThisBtn4 29d ago
      Even the "educated" people on HN have literal incorrect understanding. It's a difficult problem to solve.
  - gman83 29d ago
    Its not that Europeans havent read Mearsheimer. its that for the best part of three hundred years the whole of Europe has been trying that same realist script until there was nothing left but total ruin across the entire continent. Europeans who created the EU knew about balance of power geopolitics so well, they created this slow bureaucratic mess specifically to stop Germany and France sliding back into the same old lethal habit. While clumsy positioning between the US and China is a headache in the present moment for Europe, compared to a tedious Union Europeans prefer reawakenings of 1914 in their backyard. Well at least so far.
    - YZF 29d ago
      I would bet any amount that if you go to a random European city and stop 100 random people on the street you'd be lucky if one person has even heard of Mearsheimer. I think you're also overthinking how the EU got created. I don't think pre-EU Europe was on the brink of violence either. It was more IMO simplistic (but possibly correct, who knows) thinking that it's stronger (economically) as a block. A lot of present day Europe issues that might lead to bigger problems are potentially worse because of the EU.
smnplk 29d ago
One would think that ze germans would be among the first to be conquering space with all that german engineering.
- johannes1234321 29d ago
  They are - but in cooperation with others. Parts of the Orion capsule of the current Artemis mission program are based on the German ATV, which is a capsule which was developed to supply ISS. On ISS there are German modules like Galileo. German Spacelab was a major component of many Space Shuttle missions. German companies like Zeiss provided optics and laser components for Apollo. To name a few, besides lots of satellites and other things. However after WW2 there were different political decisions, so that Germany won't build its own rockets, but German technology was key to Saturn V and Ariane rockets. Aside from technology, Germany also got major control centers and mission planning capability in Cologne and Oberpfaffenhofen. Most components are there, but not the political will to go on a national mission.
  - sebmellen 29d ago
    I mean, Operation Paperclip and Von Braun were central to the success of the Apollo program. The Soviets had a similar postwar-German-capture program, if I remember correctly.
    - drysine 28d ago
      Not that similar https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49583883 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49583883
      - sebmellen 27d ago
        Similar in the sense that they captured and extracted them, but you are right that Germans were not as central to the actual operations of the Soviet program.
        26d ago
ACCount37 29d ago
Yeah this is just the effect of SpaceX showcasing "space launch is no longer the realm of government efforts only". They kicked off the wave of commercial space launch - and now, it reached the EU too.

Eupolemos 29d ago

Eh, you can split us Europeans up into two camps; those who do not want to see the problem and those who couldn't look away. The second camp saw the craziness when the later Bush was elected a second time.

tosapple 29d ago
one of those bush votes was to ensure he could clean up his own mess.
- Forgeties79 29d ago
  I’m curious what you mean by this. At face value it seems like a weird rationalization but I get the sense I’m not reading this correctly.
- wilg 29d ago
  lmao what
- tosapple 27d ago
  what kind've voter intimidating sh* is this? down-voted for being honest, promoting understanding and responsibility? jokes on you guys as i firmly believe bullying racketeering and intimidation are quite literally terrorism when applied to population groups consisting of more than (1) individual. careful on that slippery slope.
whatsThisBtn4 29d ago
I'd split it into 2 camps. Elites who realize Europe isn't a unified group or has a military strong enough for defense.. And people who get wet when France says they are going to send soldiers to Ukraine and it never materializes. The general population has 0 understanding of international relations. It's the United States and China right now. Any other belief comes from someone who has read 0 international relations Realism books.
- sebmellen 29d ago
  Realpolitik sorely lacking
  - whatsThisBtn4 29d ago
    Even the "educated" people on HN have literal incorrect understanding. It's a difficult problem to solve.
- gman83 29d ago
  Its not that Europeans havent read Mearsheimer. its that for the best part of three hundred years the whole of Europe has been trying that same realist script until there was nothing left but total ruin across the entire continent. Europeans who created the EU knew about balance of power geopolitics so well, they created this slow bureaucratic mess specifically to stop Germany and France sliding back into the same old lethal habit. While clumsy positioning between the US and China is a headache in the present moment for Europe, compared to a tedious Union Europeans prefer reawakenings of 1914 in their backyard. Well at least so far.
  - YZF 29d ago
    I would bet any amount that if you go to a random European city and stop 100 random people on the street you'd be lucky if one person has even heard of Mearsheimer. I think you're also overthinking how the EU got created. I don't think pre-EU Europe was on the brink of violence either. It was more IMO simplistic (but possibly correct, who knows) thinking that it's stronger (economically) as a block. A lot of present day Europe issues that might lead to bigger problems are potentially worse because of the EU.

smnplk 29d ago

One would think that ze germans would be among the first to be conquering space with all that german engineering.

johannes1234321 29d ago
They are - but in cooperation with others. Parts of the Orion capsule of the current Artemis mission program are based on the German ATV, which is a capsule which was developed to supply ISS. On ISS there are German modules like Galileo. German Spacelab was a major component of many Space Shuttle missions. German companies like Zeiss provided optics and laser components for Apollo. To name a few, besides lots of satellites and other things. However after WW2 there were different political decisions, so that Germany won't build its own rockets, but German technology was key to Saturn V and Ariane rockets. Aside from technology, Germany also got major control centers and mission planning capability in Cologne and Oberpfaffenhofen. Most components are there, but not the political will to go on a national mission.
- sebmellen 29d ago
  I mean, Operation Paperclip and Von Braun were central to the success of the Apollo program. The Soviets had a similar postwar-German-capture program, if I remember correctly.
  - drysine 28d ago
    Not that similar https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49583883 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49583883
    - sebmellen 27d ago
      Similar in the sense that they captured and extracted them, but you are right that Germans were not as central to the actual operations of the Soviet program.
      - 26d ago

ACCount37 29d ago

Yeah this is just the effect of SpaceX showcasing "space launch is no longer the realm of government efforts only". They kicked off the wave of commercial space launch - and now, it reached the EU too.