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Keep trying to educate them how? By your own admission data centers: * use a lot of water to build one * the power is a problem * the noise is an issue * th

Keep trying to educate them how? By your own admission data centers: * use a lot of water to build one * the power is a problem * the noise is an issue * the power is coming from non-green sources * the government could “easily” fix all this with regulations

jedberg 23d ago
Trying to educate them that water and power usage are the less problematic parts and not as bad as everyone thinks. It's the noise and lack of green power that are the problems.
- bayindirh 23d ago
  Can you please provide us the details how much water an open-air, evaporative cooling system loses due to evaporation and other system-wide losses? Also can you tell us which chemicals need to be added to the outer and inner loops of the systems, and do the inner loop has the same losses or it is different. If there's water loss into the ground, and if the water is treated with chemicals, is it required or is it in fact treated to remove these chemicals so the used water can be reused for livestock, agriculture, or non-consumable use in the cities like for watering greenery or other processes which needs water but can accept non-potable variety. I also heard that there's a closed loop version for outer loop. Is it used widely in US, if yes, what percentage of the large datacenters use it? Because as I heard it, it's more expensive, but doesn't lose water as much. Adding some references if possible is greatly appreciated so we can dive deeper, as the community. Same is also valid for power usage metrics. I'm especially interested in how a datacenter full of 800VDC systems (aka Megawatt Rack) can be fed without any difficulty with our current power generation and transfer infra.
  - CamperBob2 23d ago
    Imagine taking half the cars off the road because they no longer need to be there, and then re-run your ecological calculations.
    - bayindirh 23d ago
      Can you elaborate a little more? I failed to catch what you're trying to say. Sorry.
      - CamperBob2 23d ago
        If AI succeeds at replacing most white-collar jobs, there will obviously be much less commuting. If it doesn't, we can all stand around and make fun of the people who paid terabucks for the data centers, and enjoy a bountiful harvest of surplus hardware for pennies on the dollar.
        bayindirh 23d ago
        Commuting for work with a car is mostly a US problem. In countries with proper mass-transit, many people don't need cars. I personally have to use car, because the city I live is very hilly, and don't have the fast mass transit options which I can use in many places of the world. OTOH, considering the proliferation of the EVs, greenhouse gas emissions from cars are going down, alongside brake-pad related emissions since generative braking covers 90%+ of the daily braking needs. OTOH, many datacenters are installing their own greenhouse emitting power gensets. So, with a bitter contrast, as AI is replacing jobs, it's also filling back the carbon footprint vacated by cars and more efficient modes of transport at the same time. These GPUs won't be scrapped soon, because besides AI, they are useful for accelerating not-so-precise floating point calculations en-masse. So, no, it won't work as you imagine.
        CamperBob2 23d ago
        Commuting for work with a car is mostly a US problem. And here we are, talking about the US. Great, that's settled. OTOH, considering the proliferation of the EVs, greenhouse gas emissions from cars are going down In the US, most electricity comes from carbon-based sources. EVs help, certainly, but it would still be best from an ecological standpoint if people didn't have to use them every day to get to work. OTOH, many datacenters are installing their own greenhouse emitting power gensets. Exactly, which is why we should work for grid renewal and expansion at the same time we build these things out. If the hyperscalers insist on building their own power plants, those power plants should be required to be (a) carbon-neutral; and (b) grid-tied. These GPUs won't be scrapped soon, because besides AI, they are useful for accelerating not-so-precise floating point calculations en-masse. Really. What are some other applications for not-so-precise floating point calculations at the exaflops level?
- blooalien 23d ago
  > water ... usage are the less problematic parts Except when some rich clown from another country comes into a drought-stressed desert area where residents have already been under increasingly draconic water usage restrictions for goin' on a decade now, wantin' to build a datacenter right on a lake that's already under severe stress with record low water levels, tellin' everyone it won't have any effect on anything and it's all just rainbows and sunshine and nothin' but benefits for everyone all around (lies). But yeah, no worries. We can surely trust the billionaire wouldn't lie to us to enrich himself at our expense.
- skripp11 23d ago
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jedberg 23d ago

Trying to educate them that water and power usage are the less problematic parts and not as bad as everyone thinks. It's the noise and lack of green power that are the problems.

bayindirh 23d ago
Can you please provide us the details how much water an open-air, evaporative cooling system loses due to evaporation and other system-wide losses? Also can you tell us which chemicals need to be added to the outer and inner loops of the systems, and do the inner loop has the same losses or it is different. If there's water loss into the ground, and if the water is treated with chemicals, is it required or is it in fact treated to remove these chemicals so the used water can be reused for livestock, agriculture, or non-consumable use in the cities like for watering greenery or other processes which needs water but can accept non-potable variety. I also heard that there's a closed loop version for outer loop. Is it used widely in US, if yes, what percentage of the large datacenters use it? Because as I heard it, it's more expensive, but doesn't lose water as much. Adding some references if possible is greatly appreciated so we can dive deeper, as the community. Same is also valid for power usage metrics. I'm especially interested in how a datacenter full of 800VDC systems (aka Megawatt Rack) can be fed without any difficulty with our current power generation and transfer infra.
- CamperBob2 23d ago
  Imagine taking half the cars off the road because they no longer need to be there, and then re-run your ecological calculations.
  - bayindirh 23d ago
    Can you elaborate a little more? I failed to catch what you're trying to say. Sorry.
    - CamperBob2 23d ago
      If AI succeeds at replacing most white-collar jobs, there will obviously be much less commuting. If it doesn't, we can all stand around and make fun of the people who paid terabucks for the data centers, and enjoy a bountiful harvest of surplus hardware for pennies on the dollar.
      - bayindirh 23d ago
        Commuting for work with a car is mostly a US problem. In countries with proper mass-transit, many people don't need cars. I personally have to use car, because the city I live is very hilly, and don't have the fast mass transit options which I can use in many places of the world. OTOH, considering the proliferation of the EVs, greenhouse gas emissions from cars are going down, alongside brake-pad related emissions since generative braking covers 90%+ of the daily braking needs. OTOH, many datacenters are installing their own greenhouse emitting power gensets. So, with a bitter contrast, as AI is replacing jobs, it's also filling back the carbon footprint vacated by cars and more efficient modes of transport at the same time. These GPUs won't be scrapped soon, because besides AI, they are useful for accelerating not-so-precise floating point calculations en-masse. So, no, it won't work as you imagine.
        CamperBob2 23d ago
        Commuting for work with a car is mostly a US problem. And here we are, talking about the US. Great, that's settled. OTOH, considering the proliferation of the EVs, greenhouse gas emissions from cars are going down In the US, most electricity comes from carbon-based sources. EVs help, certainly, but it would still be best from an ecological standpoint if people didn't have to use them every day to get to work. OTOH, many datacenters are installing their own greenhouse emitting power gensets. Exactly, which is why we should work for grid renewal and expansion at the same time we build these things out. If the hyperscalers insist on building their own power plants, those power plants should be required to be (a) carbon-neutral; and (b) grid-tied. These GPUs won't be scrapped soon, because besides AI, they are useful for accelerating not-so-precise floating point calculations en-masse. Really. What are some other applications for not-so-precise floating point calculations at the exaflops level?
blooalien 23d ago
> water ... usage are the less problematic parts Except when some rich clown from another country comes into a drought-stressed desert area where residents have already been under increasingly draconic water usage restrictions for goin' on a decade now, wantin' to build a datacenter right on a lake that's already under severe stress with record low water levels, tellin' everyone it won't have any effect on anything and it's all just rainbows and sunshine and nothin' but benefits for everyone all around (lies). But yeah, no worries. We can surely trust the billionaire wouldn't lie to us to enrich himself at our expense.
skripp11 23d ago
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