3 ms·

Never connect a smart TV to the internet. Use it as a dumb screen with your choice of media device.

K0balt 1mo ago
It’s been a couple of years but there was some thing about a p2p link between televisions that allowed c&c / exfil even on some brand of televisions that weren’t hooked up to the internet if they were within range of ones that were… so even that might not be enough. Edit: it was Samsung, where Wi-Fi Direct was always-on, and concurrent with STA mode wifi, enabling other WiFi direct devices potentially to connect to the internet, including other Samsung televisions. Their televisions were also hacked to gain root over a standard DVB broadcast on fully patched firmware lol so it might be possible to pwn a whole city at a time through that vector. Smart-TV platforms have long done cross-device identification, and there have been some surprisingly aggressive local-device discovery schemes. In all, smart devices are pretty much surveillance devices, and a privacy nightmare. I have had enough exposure to shady goings on that I am nearly certain that most devices ship with intentional backdoors sold to three letter agencies or malware rings, either by unscrupulous engineers or by the company itself. It’s just hard to pass on the payday that a wide deployment of a permanent relay/mic/camera/sniffer represents, especially if it’s likely to end up in corporate or industrial environments. I’ve had speculative offers to compromise smaller projects, and I’m nobody. I have no doubt that engineers working on widely deployed projects and systems are given very attractive offers to provide tailored access.
- goda90 1mo ago
  We all need to live in Faraday cages now.
  - LargoLasskhyfv 29d ago
    No. We need to deploy sophisticated military grade beam forming gizmos for selective signals canceling. Faraday is caveman copium.
rationalist 1mo ago
Another user on HN that reported that their guest connected their TV to the guest's phone hotspot to watch Netflix. So you have to go a step further and remove the Wi-Fi card, because there is no guarantee that someone else won't connect the TV to the Internet.
woodgala 1mo ago
Ever heard of TCP/IP over HDMI? It’s a method of exploiting HEC. Connect your smart TV to a streaming platform and it connects to the internet via the video cable. There’s no escape.
- Melonai 1mo ago
  No I have not heard of it, and it's genuinely baffling! Which consortium thought this up? I don't see one sensible reason to do this apart from just random tinkering or malicious purposes.
  - phil21 29d ago
    If OP means Ethernet over HDMI it’s in the spec but as far as I’m aware has not been implemented in any mainstream chipsets anything actually uses. It’s one of those theoretical things that is somewhat surprising didn’t happen. Overall it’s not a bad idea if devices need network connectivity. Have one central “box” get an Ethernet drop and it acts as a switch for your tv/xbox/playstation/media player/etc. The spec was made back when A/V receivers were more popular than they are now. It would cut down on a cable per device. If OP means an exploit/hack then that’s a bit different.
  - deleted 29d ago
    [deleted]
- LargoLasskhyfv 29d ago
  That's part of some spec. AFAIK it got not used, or not implented in relevant ways. So far...
testing22321 1mo ago
Just don’t buy one at all. Like HP printers. Don’t give your money to companies doing shit things.
- Anonyneko 1mo ago
  Kinda hard to do when nobody offers dumb TVs with good screens anymore. With printers you have options at least.
  - CharlesW 1mo ago
    You can buy "commercial displays" with very good screens, but you'll pay more. https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/products/Flat-Panel-Displays/ci/16073/N/4205668456?filters=fct_customer_rating%3A1_5_stars%7C2_4_stars%3AREGULAR%2Cfct_screen-size_953%3A100in%7C105in%7C108in%7C109in%7C110in%7C115in%7C132in%7C135in%7C136in%7C138in%7C146in%7C163in%7C164in%7C165in%7C216in%7C220in%7C65in%7C70in%7C75in%7C77in%7C79in%7C81in%7C83in%7C84in%7C85in%7C86in%7C89in%7C92in%7C94in%7C97in%7C98in%3ARANGE https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/products/Flat-Panel-Displays/...
  - testing22321 29d ago
    It’s called “the idiot box” for a reason. Don’t buy a tv at all. I have not had one for 20 years, never missed it.

It’s been a couple of years but there was some thing about a p2p link between televisions that allowed c&c / exfil even on some brand of televisions that weren’t hooked up to the internet if they were within range of ones that were… so even that might not be enough. Edit: it was Samsung, where Wi-Fi Direct was always-on, and concurrent with STA mode wifi, enabling other WiFi direct devices potentially to connect to the internet, including other Samsung televisions. Their televisions were also hacked to gain root over a standard DVB broadcast on fully patched firmware lol so it might be possible to pwn a whole city at a time through that vector. Smart-TV platforms have long done cross-device identification, and there have been some surprisingly aggressive local-device discovery schemes. In all, smart devices are pretty much surveillance devices, and a privacy nightmare. I have had enough exposure to shady goings on that I am nearly certain that most devices ship with intentional backdoors sold to three letter agencies or malware rings, either by unscrupulous engineers or by the company itself. It’s just hard to pass on the payday that a wide deployment of a permanent relay/mic/camera/sniffer represents, especially if it’s likely to end up in corporate or industrial environments. I’ve had speculative offers to compromise smaller projects, and I’m nobody. I have no doubt that engineers working on widely deployed projects and systems are given very attractive offers to provide tailored access.

goda90 1mo ago
We all need to live in Faraday cages now.
- LargoLasskhyfv 29d ago
  No. We need to deploy sophisticated military grade beam forming gizmos for selective signals canceling. Faraday is caveman copium.

rationalist 1mo ago

Another user on HN that reported that their guest connected their TV to the guest's phone hotspot to watch Netflix. So you have to go a step further and remove the Wi-Fi card, because there is no guarantee that someone else won't connect the TV to the Internet.

woodgala 1mo ago

Ever heard of TCP/IP over HDMI? It’s a method of exploiting HEC. Connect your smart TV to a streaming platform and it connects to the internet via the video cable. There’s no escape.

Melonai 1mo ago
No I have not heard of it, and it's genuinely baffling! Which consortium thought this up? I don't see one sensible reason to do this apart from just random tinkering or malicious purposes.
- phil21 29d ago
  If OP means Ethernet over HDMI it’s in the spec but as far as I’m aware has not been implemented in any mainstream chipsets anything actually uses. It’s one of those theoretical things that is somewhat surprising didn’t happen. Overall it’s not a bad idea if devices need network connectivity. Have one central “box” get an Ethernet drop and it acts as a switch for your tv/xbox/playstation/media player/etc. The spec was made back when A/V receivers were more popular than they are now. It would cut down on a cable per device. If OP means an exploit/hack then that’s a bit different.
- deleted 29d ago
  [deleted]
LargoLasskhyfv 29d ago
That's part of some spec. AFAIK it got not used, or not implented in relevant ways. So far...

testing22321 1mo ago

Just don’t buy one at all. Like HP printers. Don’t give your money to companies doing shit things.

Anonyneko 1mo ago
Kinda hard to do when nobody offers dumb TVs with good screens anymore. With printers you have options at least.
- CharlesW 1mo ago
  You can buy "commercial displays" with very good screens, but you'll pay more. https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/products/Flat-Panel-Displays/ci/16073/N/4205668456?filters=fct_customer_rating%3A1_5_stars%7C2_4_stars%3AREGULAR%2Cfct_screen-size_953%3A100in%7C105in%7C108in%7C109in%7C110in%7C115in%7C132in%7C135in%7C136in%7C138in%7C146in%7C163in%7C164in%7C165in%7C216in%7C220in%7C65in%7C70in%7C75in%7C77in%7C79in%7C81in%7C83in%7C84in%7C85in%7C86in%7C89in%7C92in%7C94in%7C97in%7C98in%3ARANGE https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/products/Flat-Panel-Displays/...
- testing22321 29d ago
  It’s called “the idiot box” for a reason. Don’t buy a tv at all. I have not had one for 20 years, never missed it.