2 ms·

Yeah, I'm not sure on balance it's been a good thing. It's doubled the number of wage slaves and created bitterness amongst them. Now they all get to come home

Yeah, I'm not sure on balance it's been a good thing. It's doubled the number of wage slaves and created bitterness amongst them. Now they all get to come home to an unclean house with no food, fork out for someone else to raise their children and even walk their dogs. Perhaps the baby was thrown out with bathwater to some degree? Even the apparent victories of feminism are somewhat dubious. For example, the female vote. People love to talk about how women had to fight to get the vote, but they never talk about men. In the UK, men got the vote only 10 years before women (1918 vs 1928). Prior to this, only some men and, yes, women, had the vote. It took almost 100 years for all men to get the vote, and an additional 10 for women. I want to live in a fair and equitable society. Everyone deserves a chance. I just don't see how forcing women into the workforce has anything to do with that.

Jtarii 1mo ago
This is literally just patriarchy talking, you think that men know what's best for women, and what's best for them is for them to stay at home cooking and cleaning. Which is awfully convenient for the men that don't want to do those things. >I want to live in a fair and equitable society. Everyone deserves a chance. Except for the women that want careers, they can go fuck themselves apparently.
- anal_reactor 1mo ago
  > Which is awfully convenient for the men that don't want to do those things. I do. Now what.
- globular-toast 1mo ago
  Have you asked women? Or even just observed their choices? Women overwhelmingly value motherhood over their careers when asked, see e.g. https://yougov.com/en-gb/articles/8791-mult-country-survey-most-women-put-motherhood-ahea https://yougov.com/en-gb/articles/8791-mult-country-survey-m... There is no patriarchy. We live in an oligarchy and always have. Did anyone ever ask men whether they actually want to spend their lives in the workforce or if they'd rather spend more time at home working on their own things? Loads of men would love to be able to spend more time at home. > Except for the women that want careers, they can go fuck themselves apparently. Complete nonsense. You are putting words into my mouth. I never said women who want careers shouldn't be able to have them. I said I don't agree with forcing women into the workforce. Do you see the difference? I also cannot do anything about how human reproduction works. Women, like men, have to make choices and that choice will come with sacrifice. Adults have to learn to accept this or live forever in frustration.
  - Jtarii 1mo ago
    Can you explain how women can both be allowed to have careers if they want while also not being "forced" into the workplace? It just sounds like you want women to face extreme societal pressure to be mothers, and the few women that break out and have careers are going to be ostracised. In modern, liberal, western society women are free to do whatever they want. If they want to get married at 25 and have 5 children there is nothing stopping them. If they want to go study neurobiology there is also nothing stopping them. The vast majority of women when given the choice, do not want to have 5 children at age 25. They want 1-3 children at age 32.
    - globular-toast 1mo ago
      > Can you explain how women can both be allowed to have careers if they want while also not being "forced" into the workplace? In the same way that people are at to listen to reggae without being forced to do it. The problem with work is cultural, though. We are struggling with the fact we don't really need to work much any more. Most of our essential needs are beyond covered: food, warmth, shelter. But we can't get out of the work mindset. Even our popular music is littered with references to work. Practically speaking, it's difficult for people to work less because they are wage slaves. You can work less, but then you'll earn less and won't be able to compete with dual earners for housing etc. It's a very difficult thing to reverse. > It just sounds like you want women to face extreme societal pressure to be mothers, and the few women that break out and have careers are going to be ostracised. Ridiculous. My partner is a woman and we're child free. I wish there were more child free women. I find them a lot more interesting than breeders. But it should be their choice. My point was that feminism has failed to create choice and instead caused a situation where women feel compelled to join the labour force, whether it's what they really want or not.

Jtarii 1mo ago

This is literally just patriarchy talking, you think that men know what's best for women, and what's best for them is for them to stay at home cooking and cleaning. Which is awfully convenient for the men that don't want to do those things. >I want to live in a fair and equitable society. Everyone deserves a chance. Except for the women that want careers, they can go fuck themselves apparently.

anal_reactor 1mo ago
> Which is awfully convenient for the men that don't want to do those things. I do. Now what.
globular-toast 1mo ago
Have you asked women? Or even just observed their choices? Women overwhelmingly value motherhood over their careers when asked, see e.g. https://yougov.com/en-gb/articles/8791-mult-country-survey-most-women-put-motherhood-ahea https://yougov.com/en-gb/articles/8791-mult-country-survey-m... There is no patriarchy. We live in an oligarchy and always have. Did anyone ever ask men whether they actually want to spend their lives in the workforce or if they'd rather spend more time at home working on their own things? Loads of men would love to be able to spend more time at home. > Except for the women that want careers, they can go fuck themselves apparently. Complete nonsense. You are putting words into my mouth. I never said women who want careers shouldn't be able to have them. I said I don't agree with forcing women into the workforce. Do you see the difference? I also cannot do anything about how human reproduction works. Women, like men, have to make choices and that choice will come with sacrifice. Adults have to learn to accept this or live forever in frustration.
- Jtarii 1mo ago
  Can you explain how women can both be allowed to have careers if they want while also not being "forced" into the workplace? It just sounds like you want women to face extreme societal pressure to be mothers, and the few women that break out and have careers are going to be ostracised. In modern, liberal, western society women are free to do whatever they want. If they want to get married at 25 and have 5 children there is nothing stopping them. If they want to go study neurobiology there is also nothing stopping them. The vast majority of women when given the choice, do not want to have 5 children at age 25. They want 1-3 children at age 32.
  - globular-toast 1mo ago
    > Can you explain how women can both be allowed to have careers if they want while also not being "forced" into the workplace? In the same way that people are at to listen to reggae without being forced to do it. The problem with work is cultural, though. We are struggling with the fact we don't really need to work much any more. Most of our essential needs are beyond covered: food, warmth, shelter. But we can't get out of the work mindset. Even our popular music is littered with references to work. Practically speaking, it's difficult for people to work less because they are wage slaves. You can work less, but then you'll earn less and won't be able to compete with dual earners for housing etc. It's a very difficult thing to reverse. > It just sounds like you want women to face extreme societal pressure to be mothers, and the few women that break out and have careers are going to be ostracised. Ridiculous. My partner is a woman and we're child free. I wish there were more child free women. I find them a lot more interesting than breeders. But it should be their choice. My point was that feminism has failed to create choice and instead caused a situation where women feel compelled to join the labour force, whether it's what they really want or not.