3 ms·

Eh. I'm just tired of feminism. It promised equality but instead brought the gender war while driving down salaries.

Jtarii 28d ago
There has always been a gender war, throughout the entirety of human existence. You just don't like that women have won a few battles recently.
- dissent 28d ago
  You're right that it's always been there, but wrong that you think it can be won. Every woman's gain is her son's loss, and every father's gain is his daughter's loss. It's an iterative game with a long term aggregate outcome for the society in question. You're framing it from the perspective of individuals. Women cannot win without men also winning and vice versa.
  - Jtarii 28d ago
    >Every woman's gain is her son's loss I don't even understand this at all. If you believe gender equality is an intrinsic good then any women's gain up to gender equality would be a gain for anyone who has that principle regardless of their gender. Do you think that black emancipation from slavery was "white's loss". It's just such a nonsensical position to hold.
    - anal_reactor 28d ago
      > If you believe gender equality is an intrinsic good First, I believe that women have privileged position compared to men. So tipping the scales in favor of women removes gender equality. Second, comparison with black emancipation makes no sense. For evolutionarily foreseeable future, as long as humanity exists, so will men and women, and they need to get along with each other. Meanwhile you could imagine a perfectly functional world without emancipated black slaves.
      - Jtarii 28d ago
        We have very different definitions of what functional means.
    - dissent 28d ago
      Not at all. What I mean is each sex has a vested interest in the well being of the other, since both of them have a vested interest in the well being in their children of either sex. If my wife gains from affirmative action while her 5 sons lose, it's a net loss to my wife. By the same token, emancipation of women is good for the man with 5 daughters. The race comparison doesn't hold in quite the same way, because there isn't automatically a heredity line. One group can just exploit the other indefinitely.
- JackSlateur 28d ago
  "You just don't like that women have won a few battles recently." Everyone can burn the house. Not sure how this count as "winning a battle". ("women" are not the only people doing that, seems to be the new game in town..)
globular-toast 28d ago
Yeah, I'm not sure on balance it's been a good thing. It's doubled the number of wage slaves and created bitterness amongst them. Now they all get to come home to an unclean house with no food, fork out for someone else to raise their children and even walk their dogs. Perhaps the baby was thrown out with bathwater to some degree? Even the apparent victories of feminism are somewhat dubious. For example, the female vote. People love to talk about how women had to fight to get the vote, but they never talk about men. In the UK, men got the vote only 10 years before women (1918 vs 1928). Prior to this, only some men and, yes, women, had the vote. It took almost 100 years for all men to get the vote, and an additional 10 for women. I want to live in a fair and equitable society. Everyone deserves a chance. I just don't see how forcing women into the workforce has anything to do with that.
- Jtarii 28d ago
  This is literally just patriarchy talking, you think that men know what's best for women, and what's best for them is for them to stay at home cooking and cleaning. Which is awfully convenient for the men that don't want to do those things. >I want to live in a fair and equitable society. Everyone deserves a chance. Except for the women that want careers, they can go fuck themselves apparently.
  - anal_reactor 28d ago
    > Which is awfully convenient for the men that don't want to do those things. I do. Now what.
  - globular-toast 28d ago
    Have you asked women? Or even just observed their choices? Women overwhelmingly value motherhood over their careers when asked, see e.g. https://yougov.com/en-gb/articles/8791-mult-country-survey-most-women-put-motherhood-ahea https://yougov.com/en-gb/articles/8791-mult-country-survey-m... There is no patriarchy. We live in an oligarchy and always have. Did anyone ever ask men whether they actually want to spend their lives in the workforce or if they'd rather spend more time at home working on their own things? Loads of men would love to be able to spend more time at home. > Except for the women that want careers, they can go fuck themselves apparently. Complete nonsense. You are putting words into my mouth. I never said women who want careers shouldn't be able to have them. I said I don't agree with forcing women into the workforce. Do you see the difference? I also cannot do anything about how human reproduction works. Women, like men, have to make choices and that choice will come with sacrifice. Adults have to learn to accept this or live forever in frustration.

There has always been a gender war, throughout the entirety of human existence. You just don't like that women have won a few battles recently.

dissent 28d ago
You're right that it's always been there, but wrong that you think it can be won. Every woman's gain is her son's loss, and every father's gain is his daughter's loss. It's an iterative game with a long term aggregate outcome for the society in question. You're framing it from the perspective of individuals. Women cannot win without men also winning and vice versa.
- Jtarii 28d ago
  >Every woman's gain is her son's loss I don't even understand this at all. If you believe gender equality is an intrinsic good then any women's gain up to gender equality would be a gain for anyone who has that principle regardless of their gender. Do you think that black emancipation from slavery was "white's loss". It's just such a nonsensical position to hold.
  - anal_reactor 28d ago
    > If you believe gender equality is an intrinsic good First, I believe that women have privileged position compared to men. So tipping the scales in favor of women removes gender equality. Second, comparison with black emancipation makes no sense. For evolutionarily foreseeable future, as long as humanity exists, so will men and women, and they need to get along with each other. Meanwhile you could imagine a perfectly functional world without emancipated black slaves.
    - Jtarii 28d ago
      We have very different definitions of what functional means.
  - dissent 28d ago
    Not at all. What I mean is each sex has a vested interest in the well being of the other, since both of them have a vested interest in the well being in their children of either sex. If my wife gains from affirmative action while her 5 sons lose, it's a net loss to my wife. By the same token, emancipation of women is good for the man with 5 daughters. The race comparison doesn't hold in quite the same way, because there isn't automatically a heredity line. One group can just exploit the other indefinitely.
JackSlateur 28d ago
"You just don't like that women have won a few battles recently." Everyone can burn the house. Not sure how this count as "winning a battle". ("women" are not the only people doing that, seems to be the new game in town..)

globular-toast 28d ago

Yeah, I'm not sure on balance it's been a good thing. It's doubled the number of wage slaves and created bitterness amongst them. Now they all get to come home to an unclean house with no food, fork out for someone else to raise their children and even walk their dogs. Perhaps the baby was thrown out with bathwater to some degree? Even the apparent victories of feminism are somewhat dubious. For example, the female vote. People love to talk about how women had to fight to get the vote, but they never talk about men. In the UK, men got the vote only 10 years before women (1918 vs 1928). Prior to this, only some men and, yes, women, had the vote. It took almost 100 years for all men to get the vote, and an additional 10 for women. I want to live in a fair and equitable society. Everyone deserves a chance. I just don't see how forcing women into the workforce has anything to do with that.

Jtarii 28d ago
This is literally just patriarchy talking, you think that men know what's best for women, and what's best for them is for them to stay at home cooking and cleaning. Which is awfully convenient for the men that don't want to do those things. >I want to live in a fair and equitable society. Everyone deserves a chance. Except for the women that want careers, they can go fuck themselves apparently.
- anal_reactor 28d ago
  > Which is awfully convenient for the men that don't want to do those things. I do. Now what.
- globular-toast 28d ago
  Have you asked women? Or even just observed their choices? Women overwhelmingly value motherhood over their careers when asked, see e.g. https://yougov.com/en-gb/articles/8791-mult-country-survey-most-women-put-motherhood-ahea https://yougov.com/en-gb/articles/8791-mult-country-survey-m... There is no patriarchy. We live in an oligarchy and always have. Did anyone ever ask men whether they actually want to spend their lives in the workforce or if they'd rather spend more time at home working on their own things? Loads of men would love to be able to spend more time at home. > Except for the women that want careers, they can go fuck themselves apparently. Complete nonsense. You are putting words into my mouth. I never said women who want careers shouldn't be able to have them. I said I don't agree with forcing women into the workforce. Do you see the difference? I also cannot do anything about how human reproduction works. Women, like men, have to make choices and that choice will come with sacrifice. Adults have to learn to accept this or live forever in frustration.