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Reading things like this help me understand how so many people fall for scams. You're so extremely trusting that it's hard to wrap my mind around... I can't rel

Reading things like this help me understand how so many people fall for scams. You're so extremely trusting that it's hard to wrap my mind around... I can't relate on any level.

aprilthird2021 1mo ago
Prove him wrong. Show us documented cases of corruption from, say Obama, or Biden, or Bush Jr. And then we'll compare it to the documented cases of Trump corruption, starting with his 2 crypto pump-and-dump schemes and his family's fake crypto company (3 already very brazenly open ones and there are more!) and let's see if you can pull similar for any of the previous presidents of the 21st century
- grebc 1mo ago
  Dick Cheney. Edit: I don’t really care though, I’m not a US citizen. Trump is terrible still. Shouldn’t have voted him in. :shrug:
  - aprilthird2021 29d ago
    Cheney didn't increase his profit one dime from his connection to Halliburton while or after his stint as VP.
  - budman1 29d ago
    You can dislike Cheney's actions while in office, but I don't remember any scandals where he put money in his pocket.
    - esalman 29d ago
      He just bombed civilians in the middle east. Current administration is both bombing civilians in the middle east and stealing from civilians in the US.
    - torstenvl 29d ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halliburton https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halliburton
      - aprilthird2021 27d ago
        He donated all his Halliburton profits and said he would do so while VP once the conflict arose
- potamic 1mo ago
  What about the whole WMD debacle? Isn't it widely considered to be an act of corruption? And bailing out bank shareholders during the '08 financial crisis.
  - hakunin 1mo ago
    What exactly was corrupt with WMD debacle? There were multiple investigations that found that this is an analytical error, not corruption.
    - potamic 1mo ago
      Do you have a source that says it was an analytical error? Everything I've read over the years suggested they knew there were no WMDs, yet went with the narrative. Here's one post that cites a CIA report that shows the administration knew there were no WMDs. https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/xmd8ut/why_do_people_say_the_us_lied_about_saddams_iraq/ipnxmhr/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/xmd8ut/why_d...
  - scott_w 1mo ago
    No, they’re not examples of corruption. Did Bush or Biden seek to profit from their actions financially? Not that I know of, unless you have proof showing what and how.
    - potamic 1mo ago
      Corruption is not limited to financial profit. There are many ways to engage in acts of self interest like grant personal agenda, favours to friends/donors, quid-pro-quo etc.
      - t-3 29d ago
        These people are also all wealthy with stable fortunes - they don't need a lot of cash because they have everything. Trump is also a rich guy, but he has a lot of debts and legal troubles and worries about leaving office, so he urgently needs cash to bankroll and bribe and attract likeminded individuals to help him.
- iwontberude 29d ago
  [dead]
- nephihaha 29d ago
  Halliburton got a lot of work from Bush's wars if I remember correctly.
  - Hikikomori 29d ago
    Looked this up and it seems like most if not all high level officials divested from companies they worked for or would profit from. Cheney still owned stock in haliburton but it seems he gave away profits when selling those to charity, he did get a large parachute when he left them. This is very different from the current admin at least. But direct profiteering by high level officials didn't happen or they were very good at hiding it. They did make their friends and old colleagues very rich, maybe that it reason enough? And I am someone that considers that administration to be full of war criminals that manufactured a reason to invade Iraq.
  - aprilthird2021 29d ago
    But Cheney never profited from any of that increased work. He donated every single investment profit from Halliburton stock (since he was paid in it and held it as VP) to charity. That's like 1000x less corrupt than even one of the 3 situations of Trump corruption from only his most recent term that I outlined
- optimisticedits 29d ago
  Which US Administration said or did anything to prevent every US corporation from trading their manufacturing secrets for cheap labor, to the totalitarian country that they're all allegedly wringing their hands over for us? Which one stopped the CIA from overthrowing democratic elections in other countries right from their inception, starting with Italy in the 50s and continuing with Operation Gladio all throughout Europe and moving into Southeast Asia as they worked with criminal groups to perfect their narco funded guerrilla warfare machine? Did Trump even catch up to the number of bombs that "peace prize" Obama dropped in 8 years? There are no sides, there's just a corporate Uniparty putting on some theater for you and you can absolutely prove that out if you dig past surface material and surface thinking.
hakunin 1mo ago
I get where you're coming from (been there too). Bad news is, you're probably in the midpoint of that meme bell curve. Grown up structures and institutions are designed well, with accountability built-in. Many many good people work in them, who hate corruption as much as you do. Bad actors are whistle-blowed upon, persecuted, convicted, and imprisoned. It's incredibly difficult in practice to do anything significantly corrupt and stay unnoticed. I don't know if you work (like, at a large-size workplace), but imagine doing something shady at your work, surrounded by your colleagues. It's not easy. The amount of surveillance, paper trail, auditing that government work entails is way more than any normal business. The irony is that your unending cynicism is actually turning you into a fool for the other side: the populists that constantly discredit institutions. They figured out that your cynicism (aversion to being scammed?) is so strong, that it can be used to scam you. They only need to discredit everyone else, that's easy. Make conspiratorial allegations based on perceived outcomes, not actual proof. Sell you all the cynicism in the world: everything is broken, everyone's bad, and you're one of the smart ones who sees it. US institutions are corrupt and worthless. This lets them pretend to be experts, because you're now a guest in their version of reality. And they directly financially benefit from your attention. Institutions maintain real internal accountability (none of these alternative media populists do), implement real processes that work, tackle real issues in ways that take into account all stakeholders, and don't just produce slogans and talking points. I know they're old and not cool, but they work. Unfortunately, very few groups are left that actually defend them, you all got scammed by relentless, self-serving, financially incentivized alternative media into thinking that everything is broken. Just because things are complex, doesn't mean they're broken. Just because measures taken aren't always satisfying, doesn't mean they are malicious. Don't get scammed into this world view by people who directly financially benefit from selling it.

Reading things like this help me understand how so many people fall for scams. You're so extremely trusting that it's hard to wrap my mind around... I can't relate on any level.

aprilthird2021 1mo ago

Prove him wrong. Show us documented cases of corruption from, say Obama, or Biden, or Bush Jr. And then we'll compare it to the documented cases of Trump corruption, starting with his 2 crypto pump-and-dump schemes and his family's fake crypto company (3 already very brazenly open ones and there are more!) and let's see if you can pull similar for any of the previous presidents of the 21st century

grebc 1mo ago
Dick Cheney. Edit: I don’t really care though, I’m not a US citizen. Trump is terrible still. Shouldn’t have voted him in. :shrug:
- aprilthird2021 29d ago
  Cheney didn't increase his profit one dime from his connection to Halliburton while or after his stint as VP.
- budman1 29d ago
  You can dislike Cheney's actions while in office, but I don't remember any scandals where he put money in his pocket.
  - esalman 29d ago
    He just bombed civilians in the middle east. Current administration is both bombing civilians in the middle east and stealing from civilians in the US.
  - torstenvl 29d ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halliburton https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halliburton
    - aprilthird2021 27d ago
      He donated all his Halliburton profits and said he would do so while VP once the conflict arose
potamic 1mo ago
What about the whole WMD debacle? Isn't it widely considered to be an act of corruption? And bailing out bank shareholders during the '08 financial crisis.
- hakunin 1mo ago
  What exactly was corrupt with WMD debacle? There were multiple investigations that found that this is an analytical error, not corruption.
  - potamic 1mo ago
    Do you have a source that says it was an analytical error? Everything I've read over the years suggested they knew there were no WMDs, yet went with the narrative. Here's one post that cites a CIA report that shows the administration knew there were no WMDs. https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/xmd8ut/why_do_people_say_the_us_lied_about_saddams_iraq/ipnxmhr/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/xmd8ut/why_d...
- scott_w 1mo ago
  No, they’re not examples of corruption. Did Bush or Biden seek to profit from their actions financially? Not that I know of, unless you have proof showing what and how.
  - potamic 1mo ago
    Corruption is not limited to financial profit. There are many ways to engage in acts of self interest like grant personal agenda, favours to friends/donors, quid-pro-quo etc.
    - t-3 29d ago
      These people are also all wealthy with stable fortunes - they don't need a lot of cash because they have everything. Trump is also a rich guy, but he has a lot of debts and legal troubles and worries about leaving office, so he urgently needs cash to bankroll and bribe and attract likeminded individuals to help him.
iwontberude 29d ago
[dead]
nephihaha 29d ago
Halliburton got a lot of work from Bush's wars if I remember correctly.
- Hikikomori 29d ago
  Looked this up and it seems like most if not all high level officials divested from companies they worked for or would profit from. Cheney still owned stock in haliburton but it seems he gave away profits when selling those to charity, he did get a large parachute when he left them. This is very different from the current admin at least. But direct profiteering by high level officials didn't happen or they were very good at hiding it. They did make their friends and old colleagues very rich, maybe that it reason enough? And I am someone that considers that administration to be full of war criminals that manufactured a reason to invade Iraq.
- aprilthird2021 29d ago
  But Cheney never profited from any of that increased work. He donated every single investment profit from Halliburton stock (since he was paid in it and held it as VP) to charity. That's like 1000x less corrupt than even one of the 3 situations of Trump corruption from only his most recent term that I outlined
optimisticedits 29d ago
Which US Administration said or did anything to prevent every US corporation from trading their manufacturing secrets for cheap labor, to the totalitarian country that they're all allegedly wringing their hands over for us? Which one stopped the CIA from overthrowing democratic elections in other countries right from their inception, starting with Italy in the 50s and continuing with Operation Gladio all throughout Europe and moving into Southeast Asia as they worked with criminal groups to perfect their narco funded guerrilla warfare machine? Did Trump even catch up to the number of bombs that "peace prize" Obama dropped in 8 years? There are no sides, there's just a corporate Uniparty putting on some theater for you and you can absolutely prove that out if you dig past surface material and surface thinking.

hakunin 1mo ago

I get where you're coming from (been there too). Bad news is, you're probably in the midpoint of that meme bell curve. Grown up structures and institutions are designed well, with accountability built-in. Many many good people work in them, who hate corruption as much as you do. Bad actors are whistle-blowed upon, persecuted, convicted, and imprisoned. It's incredibly difficult in practice to do anything significantly corrupt and stay unnoticed. I don't know if you work (like, at a large-size workplace), but imagine doing something shady at your work, surrounded by your colleagues. It's not easy. The amount of surveillance, paper trail, auditing that government work entails is way more than any normal business. The irony is that your unending cynicism is actually turning you into a fool for the other side: the populists that constantly discredit institutions. They figured out that your cynicism (aversion to being scammed?) is so strong, that it can be used to scam you. They only need to discredit everyone else, that's easy. Make conspiratorial allegations based on perceived outcomes, not actual proof. Sell you all the cynicism in the world: everything is broken, everyone's bad, and you're one of the smart ones who sees it. US institutions are corrupt and worthless. This lets them pretend to be experts, because you're now a guest in their version of reality. And they directly financially benefit from your attention. Institutions maintain real internal accountability (none of these alternative media populists do), implement real processes that work, tackle real issues in ways that take into account all stakeholders, and don't just produce slogans and talking points. I know they're old and not cool, but they work. Unfortunately, very few groups are left that actually defend them, you all got scammed by relentless, self-serving, financially incentivized alternative media into thinking that everything is broken. Just because things are complex, doesn't mean they're broken. Just because measures taken aren't always satisfying, doesn't mean they are malicious. Don't get scammed into this world view by people who directly financially benefit from selling it.