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Identifying as independents means nothing. 67% of independents in 2018 viewed one party more favorable and were unfavorable to other. In other words, the indepe

Identifying as independents means nothing. 67% of independents in 2018 viewed one party more favorable and were unfavorable to other. In other words, the independents have a partisan lean towards one party and are more likely to vote that way. https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2019/03/14/political-independents-who-they-are-what-they-think/ https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2019/03/14/political-in...

groby_b 21d ago
"indepdendent" does not mean "i see all parties as absolutely the same". It means "I am not firmly affiliated". You still have the ability to make choices on who is a better likely outcome
- XorNot 21d ago
  That only matters of you actually do make different choices. But of course in turn even trying to control for that depends on their being meaningful changes in party platforms between elections. So I'm pretty content calling it a meaningless measure.
  - swed420 21d ago
    Identifying as independent is the first step toward not voting at all (which itself is a type of vote, especially in a rigged system). So definitely not meaningless. It demonstrates increasing amounts of people are tired of pretending our democracy isn't mostly illusory. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniparty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniparty
    - XorNot 21d ago
      [flagged]
      - swed420 21d ago
        > What a childish, stupid opinion. Democrats lost to a gameshow host. Twice. They just had to be better than that, and they couldn't manage. Pathetic. They also created the conditions for his rise. Twice. The bar is so amazingly low, and yet you can't comprehend how they keep fumbling this. Maybe, just maybe, it's a good cop / bad cop arrangement where only capital interests win, and it's a race to the bottom for everybody else. Or maybe that's just a childish, stupid opinion. Who knows!
        XorNot 21d ago
        So you're capable of identifying that how people vote does matter, that the electorate actually did determine the outcome, you are not alleging that the election was actually rigged, but you think not voting in a first past the post electoral system - while expressing dissatisfaction with the outcome as decided by the voters - will achieve something?
        swed420 21d ago
        You're ignoring the important fact that Dem primaries are rigged, or like last time, simply non-existent. Their agents of capital are preselected from the start. Feel free to pretend you have a voice in the ballot box, but you don't in any significant way. You get to decide the color scheme and decide between decorum or crude, but it's the same pile of self-serving shit behind the scenes.
- spicymaki 21d ago
  This is correct. That is why I changed from independent to an actual political party. There is no point, it is highly improbable that I would ever vote for the party that is against my values. The two main US political parties are diametrically opposed.
  - swed420 21d ago
    No, they each manufacture consent for capital interests in a race to the bottom for everybody else, using time-tested good cop / bad cop, revolving door corruption, etc.
  - bigstrat2003 21d ago
    So, vote for a third party. If you don't actually like the candidate you vote for, you're engaging in political negligence. When I vote, I almost never vote for a Republican or Democrat candidate because they are, by and large, not people I want representing me. So I vote for someone I do want representing me.
    - amanaplanacanal 21d ago
      That can work, if you are strategic about it. If your candidate is polling at 5%, you might as well have not voted at all. Something I read once, probably 50 years ago now: you may not see a candidate you want to vote for, but you will probably see a candidate you want to vote against.
    - dabinat 21d ago
      I understand this logic, but voting third-party should be reserved for democracies that are healthier than the US’s. When the only choice is a flawed but sane person or an extremist, a third-party vote is effectively a vote for the extremist. Your conscience is not as clean as you think it is, because you had the option to stop an extremist and didn’t take it.
    - spicymaki 21d ago
      Voting 3rd party is throwing away your vote in the US electoral system. The reason is structural. Currently, I believe there are two independent senators and one independent representative. Independents are not another party they are just unenrolled and they all caucus with one of the two major parties. There is no third party representation in congress.

groby_b 21d ago

"indepdendent" does not mean "i see all parties as absolutely the same". It means "I am not firmly affiliated". You still have the ability to make choices on who is a better likely outcome

XorNot 21d ago
That only matters of you actually do make different choices. But of course in turn even trying to control for that depends on their being meaningful changes in party platforms between elections. So I'm pretty content calling it a meaningless measure.
- swed420 21d ago
  Identifying as independent is the first step toward not voting at all (which itself is a type of vote, especially in a rigged system). So definitely not meaningless. It demonstrates increasing amounts of people are tired of pretending our democracy isn't mostly illusory. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniparty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniparty
  - XorNot 21d ago
    [flagged]
    - swed420 21d ago
      > What a childish, stupid opinion. Democrats lost to a gameshow host. Twice. They just had to be better than that, and they couldn't manage. Pathetic. They also created the conditions for his rise. Twice. The bar is so amazingly low, and yet you can't comprehend how they keep fumbling this. Maybe, just maybe, it's a good cop / bad cop arrangement where only capital interests win, and it's a race to the bottom for everybody else. Or maybe that's just a childish, stupid opinion. Who knows!
      - XorNot 21d ago
        So you're capable of identifying that how people vote does matter, that the electorate actually did determine the outcome, you are not alleging that the election was actually rigged, but you think not voting in a first past the post electoral system - while expressing dissatisfaction with the outcome as decided by the voters - will achieve something?
        swed420 21d ago
        You're ignoring the important fact that Dem primaries are rigged, or like last time, simply non-existent. Their agents of capital are preselected from the start. Feel free to pretend you have a voice in the ballot box, but you don't in any significant way. You get to decide the color scheme and decide between decorum or crude, but it's the same pile of self-serving shit behind the scenes.
spicymaki 21d ago
This is correct. That is why I changed from independent to an actual political party. There is no point, it is highly improbable that I would ever vote for the party that is against my values. The two main US political parties are diametrically opposed.
- swed420 21d ago
  No, they each manufacture consent for capital interests in a race to the bottom for everybody else, using time-tested good cop / bad cop, revolving door corruption, etc.
- bigstrat2003 21d ago
  So, vote for a third party. If you don't actually like the candidate you vote for, you're engaging in political negligence. When I vote, I almost never vote for a Republican or Democrat candidate because they are, by and large, not people I want representing me. So I vote for someone I do want representing me.
  - amanaplanacanal 21d ago
    That can work, if you are strategic about it. If your candidate is polling at 5%, you might as well have not voted at all. Something I read once, probably 50 years ago now: you may not see a candidate you want to vote for, but you will probably see a candidate you want to vote against.
  - dabinat 21d ago
    I understand this logic, but voting third-party should be reserved for democracies that are healthier than the US’s. When the only choice is a flawed but sane person or an extremist, a third-party vote is effectively a vote for the extremist. Your conscience is not as clean as you think it is, because you had the option to stop an extremist and didn’t take it.
  - spicymaki 21d ago
    Voting 3rd party is throwing away your vote in the US electoral system. The reason is structural. Currently, I believe there are two independent senators and one independent representative. Independents are not another party they are just unenrolled and they all caucus with one of the two major parties. There is no third party representation in congress.