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As a Pennsylvanian I think this is idiotic and I completely blame the press, who have breathlesslly amplified baseless negative claims. Such as that datacenters

As a Pennsylvanian I think this is idiotic and I completely blame the press, who have breathlesslly amplified baseless negative claims. Such as that datacenters are somehow bad for the environment, have negative impacts on water supply, will raise energy and water rates for residential customers, etc. I HATE that this is somehow becoming a culture war issue.

convolvatron 1mo ago
we can probably generalize and say that anything that's a culture war issue has become disconnected with useful actionable reality.
- muddi900 1mo ago
  This is not a culture war issue. And there are people posting real data ITT.
  - convolvatron 1mo ago
    it certainly seems to be. if it were just a matter of noise, or discharging contaminated water, or waste gasses we're supposed to have rules for these things. any facility that does these things is supposed to adhere to them. so the issue isn't about data centers at all, but the fact that we've decided to stop enforcing even minimal environmental standards. water consumption is another one, we just haven't done a very good of realizing that its a limited resource and trying to manage it. the other is raising electrical rates. it should just be a real problem to raise rates to pay for Capex for other non-residential customers. those are all real issues. 'people are going to get screwed' is a culture war thing, particularly if their opinion seems to be against environmental regulation as a matter of course. if a data center isn't noisy and polluting, and doesn't impact water or electrical consumption, then there is no sane reason to be against it. there are data centers that use close loop cooling. there are those that don't effect your rates. there are ones that are not really close to residences.
    - muddi900 29d ago
      Ok where are all three that satisfy your last paragraph requirements?
WarmWash 1mo ago
The older I get the more and more convinced I become that the media is the actual real enemy of the country. Their lifeblood is creating controversy and drama about everything so they can show ads. So insane that so few call them out (probably because most people are already "captured" by them).
- catlikesshrimp 1mo ago
  Dictatorships abolish all free press, they don't like it. There was a quote where I live "Free press dies along democracy" and it did.
  - WarmWash 1mo ago
    But our press isn't free, it's bound by what gets dumb human brains to put their eyes on ads.
    - catlikesshrimp 1mo ago
      Perfect is the enemy of good. Oligarchy is still better than Monarchy
CharlesW 1mo ago
> As a Pennsylvanian I think this is idiotic and I completely blame the press, who have breathlesslly amplified baseless negative claims. But have they disproportionately amplified them? I follow some energy experts, and the consensus for AI-focused mega-datacenters seems to be "no". Some interesting reports: • Artificial Intelligence: Generative AI's Environmental and Human Effects - https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-25-107172 https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-25-107172 • FERC (Federal Energy Regulatory Commission): "…approximately half of this [$5.1 billion] cost will be borne by customers…" - https://www.ferc.gov/news-events/news/commissioner-clements-concurrence-pjm-rtep-order-docket-no-er24-843 https://www.ferc.gov/news-events/news/commissioner-clements-... • Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas: Processing Power: The Effect of Data Centers on Wholesale Electricity Markets - https://www.dallasfed.org/~/media/documents/research/papers/2026/wp2606.pdf https://www.dallasfed.org/~/media/documents/research/papers/...
nemomarx 1mo ago
I remember the fracking roll out here. The companies involved directly handed checks to local residents, promised to train locals for new jobs, paid to fund schools, and so on. These companies have a lot of money behind them - if they're not willing to put in the effort to convince local residents that the data center will be good for them, I feel like that's on them. They could easily do some handouts and fix this. Offer to pay extra taxes to the state or whatever, fund a new power plant, pay everyone who lives nearby the DC some thousands of dollars, whatever.
bryan_w 1mo ago
Exactly this. If people were just honest with their objections, then we could be unified, but currently we're fighting misinformation that are trying to stop 5MW computer closets and projects that are trying to be a drop in replacement for a _steel mill_ (which should be an automatic approval)

convolvatron 1mo ago

we can probably generalize and say that anything that's a culture war issue has become disconnected with useful actionable reality.

muddi900 1mo ago
This is not a culture war issue. And there are people posting real data ITT.
- convolvatron 1mo ago
  it certainly seems to be. if it were just a matter of noise, or discharging contaminated water, or waste gasses we're supposed to have rules for these things. any facility that does these things is supposed to adhere to them. so the issue isn't about data centers at all, but the fact that we've decided to stop enforcing even minimal environmental standards. water consumption is another one, we just haven't done a very good of realizing that its a limited resource and trying to manage it. the other is raising electrical rates. it should just be a real problem to raise rates to pay for Capex for other non-residential customers. those are all real issues. 'people are going to get screwed' is a culture war thing, particularly if their opinion seems to be against environmental regulation as a matter of course. if a data center isn't noisy and polluting, and doesn't impact water or electrical consumption, then there is no sane reason to be against it. there are data centers that use close loop cooling. there are those that don't effect your rates. there are ones that are not really close to residences.
  - muddi900 29d ago
    Ok where are all three that satisfy your last paragraph requirements?

WarmWash 1mo ago

The older I get the more and more convinced I become that the media is the actual real enemy of the country. Their lifeblood is creating controversy and drama about everything so they can show ads. So insane that so few call them out (probably because most people are already "captured" by them).

catlikesshrimp 1mo ago
Dictatorships abolish all free press, they don't like it. There was a quote where I live "Free press dies along democracy" and it did.
- WarmWash 1mo ago
  But our press isn't free, it's bound by what gets dumb human brains to put their eyes on ads.
  - catlikesshrimp 1mo ago
    Perfect is the enemy of good. Oligarchy is still better than Monarchy

CharlesW 1mo ago

> As a Pennsylvanian I think this is idiotic and I completely blame the press, who have breathlesslly amplified baseless negative claims. But have they disproportionately amplified them? I follow some energy experts, and the consensus for AI-focused mega-datacenters seems to be "no". Some interesting reports: • Artificial Intelligence: Generative AI's Environmental and Human Effects - https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-25-107172 https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-25-107172 • FERC (Federal Energy Regulatory Commission): "…approximately half of this [$5.1 billion] cost will be borne by customers…" - https://www.ferc.gov/news-events/news/commissioner-clements-concurrence-pjm-rtep-order-docket-no-er24-843 https://www.ferc.gov/news-events/news/commissioner-clements-... • Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas: Processing Power: The Effect of Data Centers on Wholesale Electricity Markets - https://www.dallasfed.org/~/media/documents/research/papers/2026/wp2606.pdf https://www.dallasfed.org/~/media/documents/research/papers/...

nemomarx 1mo ago

I remember the fracking roll out here. The companies involved directly handed checks to local residents, promised to train locals for new jobs, paid to fund schools, and so on. These companies have a lot of money behind them - if they're not willing to put in the effort to convince local residents that the data center will be good for them, I feel like that's on them. They could easily do some handouts and fix this. Offer to pay extra taxes to the state or whatever, fund a new power plant, pay everyone who lives nearby the DC some thousands of dollars, whatever.

bryan_w 1mo ago

Exactly this. If people were just honest with their objections, then we could be unified, but currently we're fighting misinformation that are trying to stop 5MW computer closets and projects that are trying to be a drop in replacement for a _steel mill_ (which should be an automatic approval)