4 ms·

I’ve always said that. If you want basic GPIO you can always shove a smaller MCU on the end of a USB cable and talk to that. Most of the embedded stuff I’ve don

by sdcfgy 1mo ago

I’ve always said that. If you want basic GPIO you can always shove a smaller MCU on the end of a USB cable and talk to that. Most of the embedded stuff I’ve done in the last decade has worked like that. They are also terrible in education. Unreliable, huge set up time, no education software runs on them properly. On the unreliable thing I got booted off their forums for writing a technical evaluation of the RPi 1 brown out issues with USB. That really put a bad taste in my mouth. Refuse to use any of their products since.

dumberquestions 1mo ago
Raspberry Pi's are essential for a certain class of robots, they're small, light and mobile enough while still being computers, and they have all the pins you might need, most people who don't understand them are usually actually looking for a stationary mini pc or an mcu and are wondering why an RPi isn't those.
- sdcfgy 1mo ago
  There are a million small embedded systems that are designed for that application and aren’t made to the lowest possible standard that they could muster. And those have RTOS on bare metal. The Pi is a fat and slow computer.
  - dumberquestions 1mo ago
    They're generally aren't as accessible.
    - megous 1mo ago
      At this point this has to be just raspberry propaganda. Or total ignorance. You can take upstream kernel and u-boot and tf-a, just build it, flash it and have a working system for 10s of different boards from various manufacturers.
- mrheosuper 1mo ago
  What kind of class you are talking, most of the time, we use MCU for real time stuff and a generic computer for Heavy computing stuff, they can communicate through whatever bus they want (Serial, USB or even wireless like bluetooth). E
  - dumberquestions 1mo ago
    Something that needs to be light and runs on a traditional navigation stack (no AI) would be served well by an RPI.
    - Reubachi 1mo ago
      There are a plethora of devices that outperform RPI in every single aspect. This has always been the case, AI proliferation or not. See the top comments in this thread for examples. Story: I spent roughly 140 USD and a 20 hours or so integrating RPI 5 2g into my vehicle ODB2/12v system. Programming the PID data from ODB2 into something readable on the RPI is something I never want to do again, and the power issues on RPI (and, lack of support) have made it largely not worth it. Further, I thought I would come up with some use case to use the GPIO pins, (IE a hat for "mechanical" GPS, G force, etc.) but the headaches with power, programming and even the touchscreens I procured have made it not worth it. I am now working on a basic NUC to replace that and it's a dream in comparison and cost next to nothing. GPIO access on RPI is negated as a "feature" by simply using USB on a NUC or similar mini pc for the same.
- marcus_cemes 1mo ago
  Small anecdote on the mobile/robotics part, two years ago I was tasked with a small research sensor/timelapse platform. I reached out for the Pi Zero 2 W, the new Pi camera, and the largest USB battery I could buy. Perhaps I had unrealistic expectations, but I was surprised how much power it draws, even at idle. The napkin math said about 6 days (0.5 W idle, 2 W loaded), in reality it was only 1-2 days. In comparison, my older laptop idles at around 5 W, even with multiple applications open. Similar experience more recently when looking at setting up a small home lab, the new Pi 5 seems to idle at around 5 W. A friend told me he has an Intel-based mini PC that draws less power. I'm tempted to try re-purposing an old phone, that should in theory do better.
  - walrus01 1mo ago
    This is AC wall power as measured by a kill-a-watt, I have an Intel N150 mini PC here with 12GB of RAM, 512GB cheap NVME SSD, with wifi active, it's 8.2W idle at an xfce4 desktop with a lighted keyboard and mouse attached to it. It came with a 110-240 to 19VDC 3A power supply. I'd say the cheap ac to dc power supply it came with is no more than 80% efficient so 6.56W DC would be what I might expect to see if I peeled apart its DC feed side power cable and put a precise clamp ammeter around it. Absolutely maxed out with stress-ng it's 24.6W at the wall.
    - sdcfgy 1mo ago
      Lenovo M600 here. Never measured it but it runs cold and doesn't have any active cooling.
justin66 1mo ago
> no education software runs on them properly. Anyone ever forced to use education software knows that’s a bonus.
- sdcfgy 1mo ago
  I don't disagree. But that's not something you can fight.
adrian_b 1mo ago
Exactly. For example, various kinds of STM Nucleo boards with MCUs having far more useful peripherals for an embedded computer than Raspberry Pi can be found for less than $20, and you can connect them to any PC with USB, to load programs on them and to debug them, or if you pay a little more, you can also connect them wirelessly. The smallest such boards have the size of the through-hole dual-in-line integrated circuits from the past (0.6" width, like the UVPROMs from ancient PCs), and they can be inserted in standard solderless breadboards.

by sdcfgy 1mo ago

dumberquestions 1mo ago

Raspberry Pi's are essential for a certain class of robots, they're small, light and mobile enough while still being computers, and they have all the pins you might need, most people who don't understand them are usually actually looking for a stationary mini pc or an mcu and are wondering why an RPi isn't those.

sdcfgy 1mo ago
There are a million small embedded systems that are designed for that application and aren’t made to the lowest possible standard that they could muster. And those have RTOS on bare metal. The Pi is a fat and slow computer.
- dumberquestions 1mo ago
  They're generally aren't as accessible.
  - megous 1mo ago
    At this point this has to be just raspberry propaganda. Or total ignorance. You can take upstream kernel and u-boot and tf-a, just build it, flash it and have a working system for 10s of different boards from various manufacturers.
mrheosuper 1mo ago
What kind of class you are talking, most of the time, we use MCU for real time stuff and a generic computer for Heavy computing stuff, they can communicate through whatever bus they want (Serial, USB or even wireless like bluetooth). E
- dumberquestions 1mo ago
  Something that needs to be light and runs on a traditional navigation stack (no AI) would be served well by an RPI.
  - Reubachi 1mo ago
    There are a plethora of devices that outperform RPI in every single aspect. This has always been the case, AI proliferation or not. See the top comments in this thread for examples. Story: I spent roughly 140 USD and a 20 hours or so integrating RPI 5 2g into my vehicle ODB2/12v system. Programming the PID data from ODB2 into something readable on the RPI is something I never want to do again, and the power issues on RPI (and, lack of support) have made it largely not worth it. Further, I thought I would come up with some use case to use the GPIO pins, (IE a hat for "mechanical" GPS, G force, etc.) but the headaches with power, programming and even the touchscreens I procured have made it not worth it. I am now working on a basic NUC to replace that and it's a dream in comparison and cost next to nothing. GPIO access on RPI is negated as a "feature" by simply using USB on a NUC or similar mini pc for the same.
marcus_cemes 1mo ago
Small anecdote on the mobile/robotics part, two years ago I was tasked with a small research sensor/timelapse platform. I reached out for the Pi Zero 2 W, the new Pi camera, and the largest USB battery I could buy. Perhaps I had unrealistic expectations, but I was surprised how much power it draws, even at idle. The napkin math said about 6 days (0.5 W idle, 2 W loaded), in reality it was only 1-2 days. In comparison, my older laptop idles at around 5 W, even with multiple applications open. Similar experience more recently when looking at setting up a small home lab, the new Pi 5 seems to idle at around 5 W. A friend told me he has an Intel-based mini PC that draws less power. I'm tempted to try re-purposing an old phone, that should in theory do better.
- walrus01 1mo ago
  This is AC wall power as measured by a kill-a-watt, I have an Intel N150 mini PC here with 12GB of RAM, 512GB cheap NVME SSD, with wifi active, it's 8.2W idle at an xfce4 desktop with a lighted keyboard and mouse attached to it. It came with a 110-240 to 19VDC 3A power supply. I'd say the cheap ac to dc power supply it came with is no more than 80% efficient so 6.56W DC would be what I might expect to see if I peeled apart its DC feed side power cable and put a precise clamp ammeter around it. Absolutely maxed out with stress-ng it's 24.6W at the wall.
  - sdcfgy 1mo ago
    Lenovo M600 here. Never measured it but it runs cold and doesn't have any active cooling.

justin66 1mo ago

> no education software runs on them properly. Anyone ever forced to use education software knows that’s a bonus.

sdcfgy 1mo ago
I don't disagree. But that's not something you can fight.

adrian_b 1mo ago

Exactly. For example, various kinds of STM Nucleo boards with MCUs having far more useful peripherals for an embedded computer than Raspberry Pi can be found for less than $20, and you can connect them to any PC with USB, to load programs on them and to debug them, or if you pay a little more, you can also connect them wirelessly. The smallest such boards have the size of the through-hole dual-in-line integrated circuits from the past (0.6" width, like the UVPROMs from ancient PCs), and they can be inserted in standard solderless breadboards.