3 ms·
I'll agree if you can define consciousness in a way that: 1) Excludes what LLM's do. 2) Doesn't exclude what many humans do (including the neuro divergent).
by mapontosevenths 1mo ago
I'll agree if you can define consciousness in a way that:
1) Excludes what LLM's do.
2) Doesn't exclude what many humans do (including the neuro divergent).
3) Doesn't just boil do to simply rephrasing your pre-existing belief/prejudice that humans are conscious and nothing else can be as if it were a fact and not an opinion.
I suspect that you can't.
- WarmWash 1mo agoConsciousness can only come from meat brains. Otherwise my incessant life long addiction to movies and TV shows has been feeding me lies about human exceptionalism.
- mapontosevenths 1mo agoThere is an appalling lack of diversity in Hollywood. You'd be surprised to find out that very few of those programs were even written by machines until recently! What bias. :)
- deleted 1mo ago[deleted]
- nozzlegear 1mo agoJust because we have difficulty defining consciousness doesn't mean we have difficulty distinguishing or classifying it. We can't give a final definition for life, intelligence or disease, but that doesn't mean everything is equally alive, intelligent and diseased. Your list of requirements is implying that, because we lack a perfect definition for consciousness, LLMs are conscious too. That's malarkey. It may be that they could one day become conscious, but it's not because we can't fully define what human consciousness is.
- estearum 1mo agoIf you can substantiate your assertion that LLMs aren't conscious without a definition of consciousness, you're welcome to do that too. I don't see why a definition is necessary. The actual problem is you just don't have a way to substantiate that belief without resorting to complete nonsense about brain atoms being more specialer (!!) than atoms that exist outside of a skull. It would be simple to disprove us by just stating your evidence for how you know LLMs aren't conscious.
- deleted 1mo ago[deleted]
- nozzlegear 1mo agoI literally just wrote about consciousness being undefined, and now you're asking me to define it? I'm not a philosopher, ask someone more qualified. Better yet, ask your LLM to give you a mealy-mouthed answer which fits your narrative. > I don't see why a definition is necessary. Don't waste my time with your sophistry. Words mean nothing to you beyond how you can twist them.
- estearum 1mo agoI said specifically you don't need to explicitly and cleanly define it. Is your position now that in order to substantiate your belief that LLMs are not conscious, you'd first have to define it explicitly? I don't see why that'd necessarily be true, but if that's what you're arguing, then that's fine. In that case: if you need to define consciousness in order to substantiate your belief that LLMs are not conscious, and you can't define consciousness, then we're back to the original question: where does your confidence they're not conscious come from?
- mapontosevenths 1mo agoYou made a declarative general statement in the form of "X can not Y." I then asked you to define Y, because you can not reasonably say that "X can not Y" without first defining both X and Y. You could not. The truth is that this conversation is pointless until someone can define both 'X' and 'Y' in ways that aren't tautological nonsense. Until then nobody can say anything with a reasonable level of certainty. This likely also applies to intelligence. Life and disease are likely simpler, though perhaps more malleable definitions.
- nozzlegear 1mo ago> You made a declarative general statement in the form of "X can not Y." That wasn't me bud.
- mapontosevenths 1mo ago> That wasn't me bud. Bah. It's obviously been too long since I flossed between my ears. Sorry about that.